Bayman Q/A
- Thread starter Brute
- Start date
I Ambiguous
New Member
You know how he lunges when he starts the DDT? That. Im guessing it has no tracking but idk
The "different throw animations" are his Offensive Holds. As for the "lunging", all of his OHs, except for Tank Roll (8P+KT/2P+KT), do reach farther than his throws, yes.
His throws and his OHs all track, except for 3P+KT.
Also, it's worth noting that his command list lists 3P+KT as an OH. This is untrue. It's a throw. It also doesn't list BT T as an OH, even though it is an OH.
Throws: T, 4T, 44T, 41236T, 3P+KT, 2T (low)
Offensive Holds: 6T, 66T, 46T, 214T, 8P+KT/2P+KT, 8PT, 33T, 3T (low)
its not guaranteed
yeah a lot of things that should guaranteed aren't. fuck it,ill be happy when if i can get his fucking back roll to work. so far its cost me so many matches its not even funny
AND AGAIN EVERY TIME EVERY GODDAM FUCKING TIME! i can do it all fucking day in the fucking training mode but when it comes to actually doing in something useful nope game says fuck you your eating that wake up kick. i am doing full fucking circles at this point i am pressing the trigger when it is straight fucking up on the analog and you know what? FUCKING POWER BLOW all the goddam day. i have had it with this BULLSHIT
AND AGAIN EVERY TIME EVERY GODDAM FUCKING TIME! i can do it all fucking day in the fucking training mode but when it comes to actually doing in something useful nope game says fuck you your eating that wake up kick. i am doing full fucking circles at this point i am pressing the trigger when it is straight fucking up on the analog and you know what? FUCKING POWER BLOW all the goddam day. i have had it with this BULLSHIT
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Viper Excess
Member
So I got a Q. How often should I be landing advanced holds and OHs? I'm currently playing him as a interrupt/power/ground grab/backbreaker character, not sure what other strats I should be using so far.
Is there a list of his guaranteed ground grabs? It sucks that not all of them are guaranteed.
Is there a list of his guaranteed ground grabs? It sucks that not all of them are guaranteed.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
You should be landing advanced holds primarily on opponents with a one dimensional form of attack. It's always been anti-spam punishment for characters like Eliot or Hayate who run in with a long range mid, or Genfu's who don't know how to mix up at the right time. You can also weave it into attacks when you're trying to get out of a frame trap, which works particularly well when you know what the second hit is going to be.
For example, Genfu launches you and catches you in the air, then he gets his guarantee standing K which puts him at +4.
You are now in a mixup game between whether he will throw you into it again, or go for a strike. If you know he is the type who follows up with
and does not bother to hit confirm, you yourself can do something akin to as one singular quick notation.
If he throws you, he will get popped into the air for high-counter. If he throws out the punches, the second one will get advanced held. That's just one example.
As for how often you should be landing OH's... that is entirely dependent on how well YOU condition your opponent to eat them. The method I use to get the majority of my offensive holds is to get a long stun on somebody and wait for their reaction. If that aren't reacting I have a few options here -- I can pressure them with which is +9 on block when they leave stun and continue my mindfuck, I can time a DDT so that it hits them as they leave stun, if they get scared of OH's and decide to start ducking I can use (sitdown stun) or simply opt to re-stun them with any number of mids to continue their frustration.
Bayman doesn't need to play at the front end of a stun like most people. A lot of his high-counter offensive hold situations come from people mashing attacks at the end of their stun. I would recommend learning to capitalize on that frustration.
Now, on a standing opponent you can get ground throws after, , (all variations, basically), .
You are also able to get.
In the air, these don't work so well unless the opponent is at some obscure height, and will just result in a pressure bounce anyway. What you CAN get in the air is , which will honestly end up doing the best ground throw damage anyway AND give you some distance between yourself and the opponent when it results in the leg snap (and it will, unless there is a weird environment situation going on).
For example, Genfu launches you and catches you in the air, then he gets his guarantee standing K which puts him at +4.
You are now in a mixup game between whether he will throw you into it again, or go for a strike. If you know he is the type who follows up with
and does not bother to hit confirm, you yourself can do something akin to as one singular quick notation.If he throws you, he will get popped into the air for high-counter. If he throws out the punches, the second one will get advanced held. That's just one example.
As for how often you should be landing OH's... that is entirely dependent on how well YOU condition your opponent to eat them. The method I use to get the majority of my offensive holds is to get a long stun on somebody and wait for their reaction. If that aren't reacting I have a few options here -- I can pressure them with
which is +9 on block when they leave stun and continue my mindfuck, I can time a DDT so that it hits them as they leave stun, if they get scared of OH's and decide to start ducking I can use (sitdown stun) or simply opt to re-stun them with any number of mids to continue their frustration.Bayman doesn't need to play at the front end of a stun like most people. A lot of his high-counter offensive hold situations come from people mashing attacks at the end of their stun. I would recommend learning to capitalize on that frustration.
Now, on a standing opponent you can get ground throws after
, , (all variations, basically), .You are also able to get
.In the air, these don't work so well unless the opponent is at some obscure height, and
will just result in a pressure bounce anyway. What you CAN get in the air is , which will honestly end up doing the best ground throw damage anyway AND give you some distance between yourself and the opponent when it results in the leg snap (and it will, unless there is a weird environment situation going on).
KidArk
Active Member
Okay... So Q I guess..? So i found something sort of akin to a force tech, it's
Basically LAUNCH But now it doesn't work all the time... well before you could tech it but that was all and if they teched you were still at +6 but i forgot to document it and now.. I can't do it anymore. You're still +6 if they tech it but if the force tech doesn't come they won't tech it. Can anyone look into using 8P as a force tech after 8P bounds?
I mean you can also do LAUNCH / or just
But they can tech out of that,
I really liked But it doesn't Force tech anymore... HALP
8P gives 19 frames of advantage when they're on the floor 8P is 19frames
Also after Force techs
Seriously Idk why 8p off juggle isn't working anymore, i mean it worked JUST now in a fight and then i remembered to make this post. But im in training trying to do it again and it's not working, please believe me i'm not lying about this force tech.
The PSEUDO force tech set ups I used were
or
or
or
(when In the same stance) (To opponents back) or
ETC there are a lot of combos he can do leading into this and if they do decide to tech out, if you use you two in one stun them right into a combo or you can just back roll after and whiff punish
Upon finishing this thread I think I know why the force tech has been messing with me, i just need to eat and test somethings. Tell me how you guys feel about that stuff is it useful? I mean even if they tech you're still + 6 ~ 10 and if you do
Basically LAUNCH
But now it doesn't work all the time... well before you could tech it but that was all and if they teched you were still at +6 but i forgot to document it and now.. I can't do it anymore. You're still +6 if they tech it but if the force tech doesn't come they won't tech it. Can anyone look into using 8P as a force tech after 8P bounds?I mean you can also do LAUNCH
/ or just But they can tech out of that,
I really liked
But it doesn't Force tech anymore... HALP8P gives 19 frames of advantage when they're on the floor 8P is 19frames
Also after
Force techsSeriously Idk why 8p off juggle isn't working anymore, i mean it worked JUST now in a fight and then i remembered to make this post. But im in training trying to do it again and it's not working, please believe me i'm not lying about this force tech.
The PSEUDO force tech set ups I used were
or or or (when In the same stance)
(To opponents back) or ETC there are a lot of combos he can do leading into this and if they do decide to tech out, if you use
you two in one stun them right into a combo or you can just back roll after and whiff punishUpon finishing this thread I think I know why the force tech has been messing with me, i just need to eat and test somethings. Tell me how you guys feel about that stuff is it useful? I mean even if they tech you're still + 6 ~ 10 and if you do
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KidArk
Active Member
While testing for my previous post I found this...
LAUNCH , ... familiar anyone? Screw this is +12 when they tech and + 17 when you force tech them. NOW i'll go eat.
EDIT : Launch , is much more reliable .
EDIT : Launch , is + 20, cute
I need help testing this though, are they able to tech after the first hit or is it like his force techs in Vanilla DOA 5? Oh.. well i just tested.. the opponent can tech :l , i'll still see how it works against players before calling it trash though , also Bayman has the leon thing STUN BURST... incase no one saw that.
for my previous post I found this...LAUNCH ,
... familiar anyone? Screw this is +12 when they tech and + 17 when you force tech them. NOW i'll go eat.EDIT : Launch ,
is much more reliable .EDIT : Launch ,
is + 20, cuteI need help testing this though, are they able to tech after the first hit or is it like his force techs in Vanilla DOA 5? Oh.. well i just tested.. the opponent can tech :l , i'll still see how it works against players before calling it trash though , also Bayman has the leon thing STUN
BURST... incase no one saw that.
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Viper Excess
Member
Interesting bit about the (pseudo) option select. Of course the opponent will be devising ways to fight back (true high crushes, fuzzy guarding, outright guessing). But Bayman seems to be frustrating when he lands a stun. At least he has some options for his frame advantage and neutral game (as opposed to others with similar speed).
He's probably really fun online, but he's probably a lot harder to play offline. I'll see if I can work with him.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Bayman is easier offline, if anything. He has to play patient and that means being able to react to lows. If you rely on crutches like his online 66K to open people up then yea, you are going to get wrecked offline. But so long as you don't abuse that too much and keep yourself honest, you'll be fine when the transition hits.
Viper Excess
Member
Sounds good then. At least his gameplan goes unaltered without lag. I've had to transition to a more defensive playstyle (coming from Christie in 4, but Tina there helped me be more patient and punish/counterpoke).
I tried to work with Leon (Sambo but offensive), but that didn't work out because he is slow and loses momentum very easily even with safety. Leifang also has a lot of defensive options but she's all over the place (got speed and stuns), and without her tools that give her like +20, I find that Bayman actually has better launchers than her.
At least Bayman has ways to fight back, and his reads prove damaging/frustrating. I can throw punish if ppl finish strings, I can crush if ppl get predictable, I can break backs if ppl counter predictably and OH if they hold unpredictably (meaning I can't predict), I can pop them into the air if OHs don't work, I can guard break if they freeze up and counterpoke/parry if they don't stop, and then advanced holds always force the opponent to rethink their plan and throw them off.
This is all preliminary, but he has a gameplan that makes sense to me, and feels like it's worth it. He may have to play psychology more often than other characters but his tools hurt and his strikes are not bad at all. I will be taking him to the lab then.
I tried to work with Leon (Sambo but offensive), but that didn't work out because he is slow and loses momentum very easily even with safety. Leifang also has a lot of defensive options but she's all over the place (got speed and stuns), and without her tools that give her like +20, I find that Bayman actually has better launchers than her.
At least Bayman has ways to fight back, and his reads prove damaging/frustrating. I can throw punish if ppl finish strings, I can crush if ppl get predictable, I can break backs if ppl counter predictably and OH if they hold unpredictably (meaning I can't predict), I can pop them into the air if OHs don't work, I can guard break if they freeze up and counterpoke/parry if they don't stop, and then advanced holds always force the opponent to rethink their plan and throw them off.
This is all preliminary, but he has a gameplan that makes sense to me, and feels like it's worth it. He may have to play psychology more often than other characters but his tools hurt and his strikes are not bad at all. I will be taking him to the lab then.
xFatalDMG
Member
I've read through this page once, and perhaps I may go through it again for a refresher. It does seem that Bayman suits the whole methodical playstyle, where you need to truly utilize his tools for every situation (much like his russian sanpo style describes).
I use Rig as my main, and i find that where Rig lacks in defense, Bayman outshines him in every possible way. Rig plays with a more linear oversight with regards to the tae kwon do style. So I'm thinking of reconsidering Rig and working it out with Bayman, since the entire psychology behind him matches how I like to play.
I use Rig as my main, and i find that where Rig lacks in defense, Bayman outshines him in every possible way. Rig plays with a more linear oversight with regards to the tae kwon do style. So I'm thinking of reconsidering Rig and working it out with Bayman, since the entire psychology behind him matches how I like to play.
My ground game has gotten much better but I'm still kinda confused as I have two options, ground throw and knee drop. Which one should I be using?
KidArk
Active Member
The ground throw first , especially when guaranteed. I usually go for 9p/8p, 9p low crushes and has the ability to mid crush sometimes whereas 8p can force tech a lot, for example after 2H+K on CH, after certain wall splats, or after 3P+K T
Yeah I do that too. I've never managed to get his leg sweep to connect a floored opponent in DOA5U
From my experience in vanilla, the knee drop was never useful. You can use it to beat out wakeup kicks or to punish someone for not teching like any other down attack, but Bayman's seemed uniquely shitty in that it appeared to be possible to tech it on reaction and punish him for it, due to it's long recovery (down attacks are typically safe on whiff, but his isn't).
Like, if Bayman knocks you down and you don't tech, then notice that Bayman has done the knee drop, if you react fast enough, you can tech back and avoid it, then punish Bayman with a low throw while he recovers from the whiffed knee drop.
There were also times where I'd land the knee drop, yet Bayman would still do the whiff animation for some reason, allowing my opponent to punish me even though I had hit them with it.
So yeah, I never did the knee drop as Bayman, unless I had caught on to the fact that my opponent never teched. Ultimately, the ground throw should net you more damage anyway, so it's usually best to go with that.
Like, if Bayman knocks you down and you don't tech, then notice that Bayman has done the knee drop, if you react fast enough, you can tech back and avoid it, then punish Bayman with a low throw while he recovers from the whiffed knee drop.
There were also times where I'd land the knee drop, yet Bayman would still do the whiff animation for some reason, allowing my opponent to punish me even though I had hit them with it.
So yeah, I never did the knee drop as Bayman, unless I had caught on to the fact that my opponent never teched. Ultimately, the ground throw should net you more damage anyway, so it's usually best to go with that.
thing is i remember when DOA5 was coming out Rikuto used it instead of the ground grab on some occasions. im curious to know why. ive done it quite often and the interesting thing is ive been able to grab after it too. i think it fuck ups the persons perception of when to get upmore so than his grab