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D.I.D. 8: Aftermath

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Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Even E Mann admitted that helena is bullshit. crazy that you guys dont. also, every single guess on every hit level will reset the situation... there has never been any character in any version of DOA with odds that good. ever.
 
J.D.E.

J.D.E.

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Ok look, I've said once & I'll say it again. The damn early projections people keep thriving off of are off! Helena was considered low-tier to begin with & now people are wanting to stick to that claim.

Where at?! I haven't seen it yet! I haven't seen nobody "punish" her correctly like you people are claiming. The fact of her being "unsafe" and "guessing" is not a huge issue in DOA5. With the fight system that DOA5 has, the shit that ya'll are saying is out the window! The woman has got tools & people are properly using those tools no matter what ya'll say, or think. I haven't seen nobody exploit her yet. Master put up a damn good fight against her.

I haven't seen nobody stop her boko stance or the slaps yet. Nobody. Helena is solid in DOA5. Until somebody can prove me otherwise, I just don't see it!
 
Skilletor

Skilletor

Active Member
Rikuto said:
Even E Mann admitted that helena is bullshit. crazy that you guys dont. also, every single guess on every hit level will reset the situation... there has never been any character in any version of DOA with odds that good. ever.
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lol.

Now a good character, "bullshit," even, is one who can abuse the stun game the most. Progress!
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Rikuto said:
Even E Mann admitted that helena is bullshit. crazy that you guys dont. also, every single guess on every hit level will reset the situation... there has never been any character in any version of DOA with odds that good. ever.
Click to expand...

Well it's good that she has to continually keep doing it. Besides Pai, she retains the lowest damage output in the game.

Is the loss of wake up kick that good? Or are players too dependant on it?
 
iHajinShinobi

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Was about to give in my share, but honestly, the following four quotes basically took the words right out of my mouth;

Chris Harris said:
So now the excuse is EVERYONE is bad and the early life of the game? You guys are so garbage at games you don't even understand it's not the guessing that's killing people. It's that the game thrives off of

1. Get stun
2. Do combo
3. Have to back off or guess wake up kick.

Helena eliminates 3 so she just continues the offense that most characters can do. If all the characters had a force tech like then all the matches would be that way. Sadly they don't, do little damage, or super specific.

However I'll let yall live in fairy land that ALL DOA players are garbage because they can't "punish" Helena.. . .smh
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Chris Harris said:
Rikuto knows he could punish but he knew it wouldn't deter him one bit from doing something random and stunning him. It had NOTHING to do with punishing.

I'm starting to think you guys have a problem understanding that punishment is ASS in the game in general. You have a 300 point bar and you think me losing 50 of it is "scary"?

That isn't even what had Rikuto being frustrated with not knowing about the match up. It was the fact that he got TOUCHED and the only way to gain momentum was to successfully guess while she has all the momentum and it NEVER stopping. After a juggle there was no "I have to back off because of the wake up kick" and he just continued his pressure. If Helena didn't have millions of variables to her strings that you could react to and her lows were slower then MAYBE she would be as ass as you think.

You would think people would listen to those that traveled and competed in the game offline but of course not. The ones that never traveled for this game know everything. Real pro shit going down. #respect
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Blackburry said:
I can't believe you guys are still trying to say that Helena is terrible. And the fact that you guys still believe this leads me to believe that a good portion of you aren't even suited to discuss this game on this deep of a level, because it's pretty blatant that you don't even know about your own game.
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NightAntilli said:
The whole 'guessing well' excuse is getting old. All matches have guessing. You fail to understand (or remember) that when a move is so-called safe, you still have guessing. If anything, more safe moves is the same amount of (if not more) guessing. You'd have to guess between either attacking from disadvantage to avoid a grab or crush something, sidestepping, blocking, or occasionally even grabbing (if the opponent has an OH).

You people should stop applying logic of other fighting games to DOA when the system is so different. There is no other game that uses this stun system, and with this system, being unsafe doesn't matter that much if you have a bunch of strings that you can mix up and have a bunch of delaying and free canceling to keep someone at a disadvantage, either a real or a mental one. Especially with the smaller hold window.
And you should stop looking at frame data on just block. Helena can get counter hits pretty easily because of the mixups and crushes. Like I said before, the only problem Helena has is getting the first stun in. After that, it's pretty much her game for the whole round. Does someone disagree with this? Have any footage to disprove this? Didn't think so. That does not sound like bottom tier to me.
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The fact that you guys continue to spew theory over facts is quite baffling.
 
D

Dr Sexual

Member
DR2K said:
Well it's good that she has to continually keep doing it. Besides Pai, she retains the lowest damage output in the game.

Is the loss of wake up kick that good? Or are players too dependant on it?
Click to expand...

Removal of the wakeup kick is a Godlike ability. As Xdest just mentioned it was a big part of what made Busa go good in 4 and lets not forget what it did for Bass in 3.1

You probably dont realize this yet because your offense with Helena doesnt include it. You literally backed off most of the times you knocked me down that time we played.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Return of the Shadow said:
How to play DOA5 and to stop trying to play DOA4.
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Really, whats the difference?

Dr Sexual said:
Removal of the wakeup kick is a Godlike ability. As Xdest just mentioned it was a big part of what made Busa go good in 4 and lets not forget what it did for Bass in 3.1

You probably dont realize this yet because your offense with Helena doesnt include it. You literally backed off most of the times you knocked me down that time we played.
Click to expand...

Yes, but is that a system thing or is it because players are depending on wake up kicks too much?

I prefer to bait wake up kicks than faux pressure, or at least I did since we last played, but people really need to learn how to adjust without it.
 
X

XDest

Member
Yes, but is that a system thing or is it because players are depending on wake up kicks too much?
Click to expand...

That's like saying 2D players are too reliant on wakeup DPs/supers/ultras that have a ton of invincibility. Real oki prevents those in other games (see: Yu in P4A), force techs are a very similar idea, imo. People that can't get out stay defensive and the momentum doesn't actually go back to neutral.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
This thread is pretty amusing considering I've literally been saying "Helena's low tier my ass" since like week one of the games release lol. She's not top tier, but she's not even close to being low tier either.

DR2K said:
Well it's good that she has to continually keep doing it. Besides Pai, she retains the lowest damage output in the game.

Is the loss of wake up kick that good? Or are players too dependant on it?
Click to expand...

I seriously cannot believe I just read that. The wake up kick literally halts any and all pressure the attacker had on their opponent...Your only option is to back away and try and whiff punish or go for a jumping attack and hope they wake up with a low kick. Helena just straight up removes that altogether and keeps the pressure going.
 
D

Dr Sexual

Member
DR2K said:
Yes, but is that a system thing or is it because players are depending on wake up kicks too much?

I prefer to bait wake up kicks than faux pressure, or at least I did since we last played, but people really need to learn how to adjust without it.
Click to expand...

Lets see,

Wakeup kicks

Projectile like range
Very difficult if not impossible to crush consistently
Free Stun
Relatively safe
Invincibility frames
At worst you eat a single 50/50 hold any time you throw one out

I would rather have wakeup kicks than infinite power blows from the start of the match. As sad as it is with the lack of force techs or a universally effective okizeme game wakeup kicks are one of the strongest tools in the game. Having a character that can completely remove them from a match holds some huge advantages.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Dr Sexual said:
Lets see,

Wakeup kicks

Projectile like range
Very difficult if not impossible to crush consistently
Free Stun
Relatively safe
Invincibility frames
At worst you eat a single 50/50 hold any time you throw one out

I would rather have wakeup kicks than infinite power blows from the start of the match. As sad as it is with the lack of force techs or a universally effective okizeme game wakeup kicks are one of the strongest tools in the game. Having a character that can completely remove them from a match holds some huge advantages.
Click to expand...

I never found wake up kicks to be that much of a threat. Since the attacker is risking a lot doing them.

Helena isn't putting you at disadvantage, she's making you tech to avoid being at disadvantage. The only thing that happened is that the situation was reset. Is that really the worst predicament to be in against Helena?

Return of the Shadow said:
If you can figure that out maybe you'll learn how to use Helena.
Click to expand...

You can teach me. Of course I'm waiting on actual information.
 
Brute

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I swear, this community is like a giant, MaxDrago hivemind. Whining that a character is underpowered when you don't even know what she can do, and then crying she's overpowered when you get beat.

"If she doesn't already, Helena should have a force tech."
-Josiah "Max536Drago" Franco, 11/03/12

"Helena is broken."
-Josiah "Max536Drago" Franco, 11/11/12
 
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