DOA6 Dead or Alive: Gold Fighters *New Game Idea*

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

Koei Tecmo, hear me out.
DOA6 Plus Budget Business Model:
1. Release a free (or $10) game with only a handful of stages (classic remastered stages). Only stages from DOA2-Dimensions. 5&6 are too new to remaster right now. The new stuff don't have magic to them and lack creativity anyway.
Release 2 new stages every 3 months (paid dlc).
2. Rework/nerf every character so that when players win they earned it; not because the move they're using is CHEAP.
The player gets to choose 1 character to keep for free and the 2nd will be random. We will have to purchase the rest. Release more over time like Nintendo does with their sports games.
3. Remove/rework all mechanics that interrupt the flow of a match and ones that are simply annoying.
-Wall bounce
-Blockbuster danger zones
-Long juggles without slopes/Break Blow/Power Launcher/Critical Burst
-Nerf the sidestep attack and break hold.
-Change the animation of the low hold so that it doesn't put you in a crouching state.
-Nerf reset throws and launching throws to make other throws equally useful.
-Make the Break Hold and normal holds swap functions. Normal holds deal a lot of damage and get even more powerful on counter and hi counter. They should require meter usage.
-Reward players with a meter boost when they make impressive plays, not by just dealing damage (throw punishment, low blocking, throw breaking, tech rolling, etc).
Contrary to what many people think, I do not believe meter needs to be removed. It can be a good mechanic if made right.
-And exclude any other elements commonsense would tell you shouldn't be in the game so that the focus will be on winning games with good predictions and conditioning.
4. Same story mode from DOA6, but it's structured better, and we have to pay money for it. Make the Raidou boss A.I. smarter or add an increased difficulty option. Too many youtubers beat him by MASHING BUTTONS. It's not satisfying to watch. Alpha-152 and Omega were fun bosses.

5. Bring back fan-favorite retro costumes. No season passes. Nothing that will make critics say, "there they go again!" No outrageous prices.

Alternate game title: Dead or Alive: Gold Fighters (or some other cool spin-off title)
You probably don't want to use the number 6 in the title.
The purpose of this business model is to please fans while saving money. DOA6+ reuses the assets from 6 while being more polished. It's all fanservice (the appropriate kind of fanservice).

Occasionally make posts or give us polls to vote on so people can communicate what they want with you. Your game is only as strong as your community.
SHARE this with Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja if you agree with meeee!

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

How is it decided if a move is "cheap" or not? What's the criteria?

How fast it is compared to every other move in the game of its type, how much damage it deals, how much frame advantage it gives you, what kind of stun it puts your opponent in, etc
Damage means more than speed, speed means more than frame advantage, etc.

Disagree about holds, but everything else might as well just not even bother and go straight to making DOA7.

Why do you disagree about holds?

But nothing about the meter mechanics in 6 ever added to the game.

What kind of mechanics would you have in mind tied to meter that don't function as a crutch or comeback?

Meters are just garbage in 3D fighters, and I've never seen a good implementation of it.

I don't like the current build of meter in the game either. But I see its potential. It adds another layer of strategy in regard to which moves you wanna use in certain situations and highlights what your opponent's options are based on how much meter they have. It's not necessary, but meter management is like a fun little mini-game inside of an already solid fighter--or would be solid fighter if done right for a change.
Just like how holds are now necessary for me to even enjoy a fighting game at all because of how much depth they add to the gameplay. It's really boring when all you can do is space and guard for defense.

Well, meter should start at 1 quarter full or flat out zero--not half way, so that you have to consciously play in a way that builds it quickly. Or you can ignore the meter build and just pound on your opponent the most effective way possible via high damage. But if your opponent opts to build meter by playing safe and smart instead of all-out aggressive like you, you may be in trouble the last half of the round. Meter won't decide a match. It's just another option players can take into consideration if they wanna do cool, spectacular stuff. It's main purpose is to make the game more fun.

You may think it'll encourage stalling or something, but you still need to be careful because if you have 30% life and 100% meter you're still at a big disadvantage and will lose to someone with only 40% meter who's at 70% health. It's a risk reward system. You can't go wrong either way you play. I do believe good offense should outclass good defense though. I'd keep that in mind while reworking the meter mechanic.

Meter can't really be a crutch because you have to be a good player, playing how you ought to play, in order to fill it up. If you are skilled enough to fill it quickly, you don't need it anyway.
I'm fine with the meter techniques being toned down for better balance.

You still haven't played Godilla with me. In that game meter is used for your beam attack and refills very slowly to the point where I get impatient waiting for it to recharge and waste the small amount I did refill to do an extremely weak atomic breath. It's good if your opponent is turtling without hiding behind cover. It doesn't do much else outside of that, so I think it's fun. It doesn't just guarantee you the edge in any and all situations unlike OP break blows.

EDIT: I came up with this idea only because I know they don't want to make a DOA7 any time soon. You already know this. They only made DOA1-4 backwards compatible to make a quick buck and see how many people are interested. They didn't use many resources to release that collection on xbox series x. DOA: Gold Fighters would be the same thing. Everyone's happy for the most part.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

To be completely honest with you, and I apologize in advance for sounding like an idiot when I say this, but I truly do not understand how a move can be considered "cheap".

What you listed there is just basic balance decisions. Some moves are going to be stronger or weaker compared to others, that's just the way it is with a diverse roster. It's impossible to avoid and trying to balance it is extremely difficult. You can nerf one move, but that would cause a ripple effect in the character's own kit, how that interacts with other characters in a given matchup, and so on. I envy nobody in charge of this stuff who takes balance seriously because I'd personally go insane lmao. One tweak might upset the whole balance and cause new problems.

Is there a single move that completely dominates everything, uncounterable, that essentially functions as a one-button-win the game? That would just be a "broken" move, not "cheap".

I find it really fun trying to figure out how to change something while also not throwing the entire system out of whack. But it's definitely not for everyone.

I would say Bass 1PP in DOA5 is cheap because after it lands successfully he gets a guaranteed ground throw reset. But it's not cheap in DOA6 because he doesn't get it guaranteed there.
In DOA4, slip stuns work on normal hit. That's cheap because it's too easy. But slip stuns aren't really cheap in DOA5 and 6 because you need to do the low on counter hit to get the slip stun. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Jann Lee's Dragon Kick is cheap because you can just do it from standing. But Pai's unblockable high kick isn't cheap because she has to get a running start first.
One more example. Kula's jumping punch is cheap because she gets +1 from it on block and she's already one of the fasts characters. But Hitomi's 8H+K is not cheap because it's unsafe on block.
See the trend here with the moves I consider cheap?
It's true that Kula's 9PP doesn't put the opponent in a fatal stun, but you don't need a fatal stun in a game where 1 single stun is just about all you need to get a more than respectable launch height.
I tend to find it risky to go for my fatal rush stun when I can quickly launch them and not risk getting held high. I primarily do it just to make my opponent panic and use their meter up. It's funny. lol

I mean, in 4-way hold I think mid parries are broken because it turns the game into 3-way hold. But it's nothing like Ayane doing her double kick that puts the opponent into a limbo stun in DOA2. That's just stupid.

Because tying a core mechanic to meter doesn't make sense.

Fair enough. However, I think it's worth giving it a try. I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to hold without meter. I'm saying holds should only do about 10 damage normally if meter isn't used. But the nerf I want to holds is mainly just the low hold not crouching, although it is fun to throw a low hold for massive damage. lol Still, I think the game would be more fun if it didn't exist like that.

I would agree with you that meter can add a layer of strategy to the game, but as it functions currently in DOA6, it does not. In fact, it actually hinders any kind of intelligent decision making after winning an exchange in neutral if that can be reversed with a Break Hold. The meter exists as crutch for bad players to get a do over for their mistakes. I don't think this is even debatable. For someone like yourself who goes on and on about "skill", you should be advocating the meter mechanics in 6 should be completely removed for serious competitive play.

I can't agree with completely taking it out. I can only agree that right now it's a trashy noob enabler.

 

[Raansu]

Koei Tecmo, hear me out.
DOA6 Plus Budget Business Model:
1. Release a free (or $10) game with only a handful of stages (classic remastered stages). Only stages from DOA2-Dimensions. 5&6 are too new to remaster right now. The new stuff don't have magic to them and lack creativity anyway.
Release 2 new stages every 3 months (paid dlc).
2. Rework/nerf every character so that when players win they earned it; not because the move they're using is CHEAP.
The player gets to choose 1 character to keep for free and the 2nd will be random. We will have to purchase the rest. Release more over time like Nintendo does with their sports games.
3. Remove/rework all mechanics that interrupt the flow of a match and ones that are simply annoying.
-Wall bounce
-Blockbuster danger zones
-Long juggles without slopes/Break Blow/Power Launcher/Critical Burst
-Nerf the sidestep attack and break hold.
-Change the animation of the low hold so that it doesn't put you in a crouching state.
-Nerf reset throws and launching throws to make other throws equally useful.
-Make the Break Hold and normal holds swap functions. Normal holds deal a lot of damage and get even more powerful on counter and hi counter. They should require meter usage.
-Reward players with a meter boost when they make impressive plays, not by just dealing damage (throw punishment, low blocking, throw breaking, tech rolling, etc).
Contrary to what many people think, I do not believe meter needs to be removed. It can be a good mechanic if made right.
-And exclude any other elements commonsense would tell you shouldn't be in the game so that the focus will be on winning games with good predictions and conditioning.
4. Same story mode from DOA6, but it's structured better, and we have to pay money for it. Make the Raidou boss A.I. smarter or add an increased difficulty option. Too many youtubers beat him by MASHING BUTTONS. It's not satisfying to watch. Alpha-152 and Omega were fun bosses.

5. Bring back fan-favorite retro costumes. No season passes. Nothing that will make critics say, "there they go again!" No outrageous prices.

Alternate game title: Dead or Alive: Gold Fighters (or some other cool spin-off title)
You probably don't want to use the number 6 in the title.
The purpose of this business model is to please fans while saving money. DOA6+ reuses the assets from 6 while being more polished. It's all fanservice (the appropriate kind of fanservice).

Occasionally make posts or give us polls to vote on so people can communicate what they want with you. Your game is only as strong as your community.
SHARE this with Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja if you agree with meeee!

So basically you want to remove everything that makes a competitive game competitive?

Reset throws can be fixed with throw breaks and low hold spam can be fixed by further increasing the recovery time on it, especially when used when stunned.

The rest is just...what? lol....

 

[KasumiLover]

So basically you want to remove everything that makes a competitive game competitive?

Reset throws can be fixed with throw breaks and low hold spam can be fixed by further increasing the recovery time on it, especially when used when stunned.

The rest is just...what? lol....

I've been telling him this from jump, you should have seen his one video where he basically wanted everything toned down since it was "luck based"... how is a perfectly timed offensive hold, baiting a hold and then throw punishing it, or winning a round with a throw punish luck based?

His ideas are erratic at best but whenever I tell him that he gets angry at me as if I did something overtly rude to him and he even reported me once when I've experienced far worse from other members here. It's as if he feels his ideas are this revelation when they're not, TN would never take his ideas seriously, especially since he can't take constructive criticism seriously. That's why I tend to ignore him

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

So basically you want to remove everything that makes a competitive game competitive?

Reset throws can be fixed with throw breaks and low hold spam can be fixed by further increasing the recovery time on it, especially when used when stunned.

The rest is just...what? lol....

No, I do not. Adding throw breaks to the game is literally my idea that I omitted from this post because I didn't wanna make it longer than it already was.

They already increased low hold recovery frames in 5 (idk if they reverted it in 6).
I was about to say "that works". But it really doesn't. If someone uses a high launcher and you low hold, how much advantage does the attacker now have left? I think it really needs to not let us crouch. The OTHER issue I've said in my videos is that it's BECAUSE the low hold has evasive qualities that people are compelled to do it. Time and time again I've clutched out a victory because I was scared and low held their low attack that I didn't even expect. I did that with Rachel in the video I posted today even. I literally would have lost the round if I did not get scared and use a noob tactic.
So yeah, the problem with low holds is deeper than just "they dodged my high".

"just...what?" It's what will make people start playing 6 again. If 6 is so good, go play it. Otherwise, stop insinuating that my ideas are horrible and can't work. You can't know what works until you try it. And if 5 is so amazing, stop being disappointed that 6 flopped. You all are either content or lie to yourselves that 5 is a fun fighting game. I'm the only one who has the right to criticize DOA6 because I have NOTHING. If I liked 5 or 6 I wouldn't care as much.

I wrote a paragraph just now and deleted it because there's no point changing people's minds. It'll amount to nothing in the end.
I'll just say, wall bounce isn't competitive and wasn't in any DOA prior to 5--if that's what you were referring to.

I've been telling him this from jump, you should have seen his one video where he basically wanted everything toned down since it was "luck based"... how is a perfectly timed offensive hold, baiting a hold and then throw punishing it, or winning a round with a throw punish luck based?

His ideas are erratic at best but whenever I tell him that he gets angry at me as if I did something overtly rude to him and he even reported me once when I've experienced far worse from other members here. It's as if he feels his ideas are this revelation when they're not, TN would never take his ideas seriously, especially since he can't take constructive criticism seriously. That's why I tend to ignore him

Let me clear some things up for you.
Perfectly timed offensive holds AREN'T luck-based. It's luck-based because 90% of hi counter holds people (I) get are not done on purpose. Noobs can spam holds and get it too. You should not be able to get it if it wasn't intentional. That's what I said. You didn't pay attention to the video. If perfect holds was a separate input where it would fail if you time it wrong, then that would make it a skill-based mechanic.
All I see is damage, and more damage coming from the holds with barely any effort required.

Baiting a hold would be skill if the game wasn't 1-stun launch. If we don't hold, we lose 20% or more of our life. If we do hold, we lose even more of our life. There is no build up. Nothing is worked out. There's no strategy. The game just GIVES you damage. You get lucky once with a stun and your opponent is in a dire situation (a "dead or alive" situation if you will).
Even just requiring one more stun so someone can earn the right to do a launcher would make the game significantly better (2-stuns minimum).
I don't feel any of you earn your wins in DOA because it's such a cheap game. The characters literally carry you and do the work for you. The only people who should win are those I've seen that have crazy reflexes. Only about 4% of the people in the community are like that though. Everyone else wins because unfortunate circumstances happened. High tier players don't just call out moves, they control the entire match from beginning to end because of their superb knowledge of the game and excellent execution.
They're still helped by the fact that the game is cheap, but you can see the difference between the playstyle of someone who's a good player and ElectrifiedMann (who blocked me because I didn't want him to use inappropriate costumes), MyWickedWays, etc.
This isn't me trying to win an argument. I'm just explaining my thought process because apparently none of you understand me.

Team Nina hasn't made a good DOA outside of Dimension, but even that wasn't perfect. So I don't really care what they think. I'm bored because they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
If I had the ability to test my ideas a lot of them would go in the trash for sure. But I can't do anything because I just don't have that luxury. So I just talk. Whatever sticks sticks.

 

[KasumiLover]

No, I do not. Adding throw breaks to the game is literally my idea that I omitted from this post because I didn't wanna make it longer than it already was.

They already increased low hold recovery frames in 5 (idk if they reverted it in 6).
I was about to say "that works". But it really doesn't. If someone uses a high launcher and you low hold, how much advantage does the attacker now have left? I think it really needs to not let us crouch. The OTHER issue I've said in my videos is that it's BECAUSE the low hold has evasive qualities that people are compelled to do it. Time and time again I've clutched out a victory because I was scared and low held their low attack that I didn't even expect. I did that with Rachel in the video I posted today even. I literally would have lost the round if I did not get scared and use a noob tactic.
So yeah, the problem with low holds is deeper than just "they dodged my high".

"just...what?" It's what will make people start playing 6 again. If 6 is so good, go play it. Otherwise, stop insinuating that my ideas are horrible and can't work. You can't know what works until you try it. And if 5 is so amazing, stop being disappointed that 6 flopped. You all are either content or lie to yourselves that 5 is a fun fighting game. I'm the only one who has the right to criticize DOA6 because I have NOTHING. If I liked 5 or 6 I wouldn't care as much.

I wrote a paragraph just now and deleted it because there's no point changing people's minds. It'll amount to nothing in the end.
I'll just say, wall bounce isn't competitive and wasn't in any DOA prior to 5--if that's what you were referring to.

Let me clear some things up for you.
Perfectly timed offensive holds AREN'T luck-based. It's luck-based because 90% of hi counter holds people (I) get are not done on purpose. Noobs can spam holds and get it too. You should not be able to get it if it wasn't intentional. That's what I said. You didn't pay attention to the video. If perfect holds was a separate input where it would fail if you time it wrong, then that would make it a skill-based mechanic.
All I see is damage, and more damage coming from the holds with barely any effort required.

Baiting a hold would be skill if the game wasn't 1-stun launch. If we don't hold, we lose 20% or more of our life. If we do hold, we lose even more of our life. There is no build up. Nothing is worked out. There's no strategy. The game just GIVES you damage. You get lucky once with a stun and your opponent is in a dire situation (a "dead or alive" situation if you will).
Even just requiring one more stun so someone can earn the right to do a launcher would make the game significantly better (2-stuns minimum).
I don't feel any of you earn your wins in DOA because it's such a cheap game. The characters literally carry you and do the work for you. The only people who should win are those I've seen that have crazy reflexes. Only about 4% of the people in the community are like that though. Everyone else wins because unfortunate circumstances happened. High tier players don't just call out moves, they control the entire match from beginning to end because of their superb knowledge of the game and excellent execution.
They're still helped by the fact that the game is cheap, but you can see the difference between the playstyle of someone who's a good player and ElectrifiedMann (who blocked me because I didn't want him to use inappropriate costumes), MyWickedWays, etc.
This isn't me trying to win an argument. I'm just explaining my thought process because apparently none of you understand me.

Team Nina hasn't made a good DOA outside of Dimension, but even that wasn't perfect. So I don't really care what they think. I'm bored because they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
If I had the ability to test my ideas a lot of them would go in the trash for sure. But I can't do anything because I just don't have that luxury. So I just talk. Whatever sticks sticks.

But anything in the game can be spammed, strikes, holds, throws and virtually anything can be spammed. It's the players fault if they fall for it. Not luck.

And I did pay attention to the video, I literally sat down after work with a cold glass of wine and watched frame from frame to critique you on your arguments. Your videos aren't exactly hard to understand more than the explanations that make no sense. And if you feel that way then don't play the game, simple. The game isn't going to suddenly stop having players just because one with strange fixes doesn't think it's viable.

As for the argument with costumes... again that makes no sense. Emann is a good player, he obviously is if he can beat you easily. It shouldn't matter what costume he chooses anyway, it's personal preference. It's even more odd since iirc he's gay(edit: he's bi apparently, he got mad and DMed me trying to check me even tho I was defending him so i wont be defending him anymore)so if he likes a revealing costume he obviously can afford to since he's already a good player and he isn't choosing outfits based on sex, he's using it because he wants to. Same with Wicked ways who I assume is straight.... what does it matter if they choose showy costumes? If they're beating you that should be your concern. I feel your focus is in the wrong areas and because of that no one wants anything to do with you hence your banning from certain discord chats.

And that's the thing... nothing you say sticks. We disagree, you get mad and then you dip and make another video and the cycle continues. If anything, it's slipping.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

But anything in the game can be spammed, strikes, holds, throws and virtually anything can be spammed. It's the players fault if they fall for it. Not luck.

Disagree

And if you feel that way then don't play the game, simple.

I haven't in a few days. lol But I have to keep complaining because I don't like the popular fighting games.

Same with Wicked ways who I assume is straight.... what does it matter if they choose showy costumes?

I put the parenthesis before WickedWays. He didn't block me. And I wasn't blaming them for using those costumes. The reason I brought it up is because I'd rather not mention Emann since we aren't friends. Because of what he did I need to bring it up every time I talk about him.
Not denying that they're good. But if Lisa and the fighting system itself was fair Emann would have had a harder time with me.

Oh, and the reason why those costumes area problem is because I don't want to see them.

And that's the thing... nothing you say sticks. We disagree, you get mad and then you dip and make another video and the cycle continues. If anything, it's slipping.

I'm not mad this time. We're just talking.
If you know an expert modder I can hire to fix DOA6 for me, send them my way.

 

[KasumiLover]

Disagree

I haven't in a few days. lol But I have to keep complaining because I don't like the popular fighting games.

I put the parenthesis before WickedWays. He didn't block me. And I wasn't blaming them for using those costumes. The reason I brought it up is because I'd rather not mention Emann since we aren't friends. Because of what he did I need to bring it up every time I talk about him.
Not denying that they're good. But if Lisa and the fighting system itself was fair Emann would have had a harder time with me.

Oh, and the reason why those costumes area problem is because I don't want to see them.

I'm not mad this time. We're just talking.
If you know an expert modder I can hire to fix DOA6 for me, send them my way.

Nah, I think you're gonna struggle against him anyway, he's a tourney level player and one of the better players, I don't comment on other players skills or lack thereof but I can tell he's on a higher level than you are and he knows the MU against whom you use. If he went back to LR or previous games it'd likely be the same story. And it shouldn't be a problem to mention him, I could understand if Emann posted a pic of you trying to ridicule you or insinuating that someone passing away in your family is karma but he's done none of that so it shouldn't be an issue if he's just another player, you'll likely fight again anyway so just prepare for next time

And with your fixes I'm not sure there's a modder who'd want to devote time to that, the most you'll get is costume or character or stage stuff but fixing doa6 is making the game only viable to you and it wouldn't be received well so it wouldn't be worth the modders time, even with money involved

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

I think you're gonna struggle against him anyway

Guaranteed I would struggle. I'd be having fun tho.

LR or previous games it'd likely be the same story.

LR isn't better than 6. lol
DOA2U has less cheap moves and moves in general. I'd like to play that, but how?

you'll likely fight again anyway so just prepare for next time

We did. But if I can't contact him because he cut all ties, I won't ever drop it. I can't challenge him or talk to him. I don't like it.

it wouldn't be worth the modders time, even with money involved

Money is worth everyone's time given the right amount. lol

 

[KasumiLover]

Guaranteed I would struggle. I'd be having fun tho.

LR isn't better than 6. lol
DOA2U has less cheap moves and moves in general. I'd like to play that, but how?

We did. But if I can't contact him because he cut all ties, I won't ever drop it. I can't challenge him or talk to him. I don't like it.

Money is worth everyone's time given the right amount. lol

LR is in terms of content and most of the mechanics tho, and he didn't cut all ties, have you tried YT? He'll likely respond there. But you can't be mad tho if he refuses to speak to you after how you treated his costume choices. And idk, all money isn't good money. I've had people who asked and offered me money for doa6 mods and I've always turned them down and haven't gotten paid yet, if it's worth the time and effort and reasonable I see no reason giving someone what they want if they're a genuine fan of the game and have something they want that I can supply them with

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

LR is in terms of content and most of the mechanics tho, and he didn't cut all ties, have you tried YT?

I think I tried twitter and Steam. I'll try youtube when I feel like it. No point now since I don't want to play what he plays.

 

[Raansu]

No, I do not. Adding throw breaks to the game is literally my idea that I omitted from this post because I didn't wanna make it longer than it already was.

It wasn't "your" idea. Throw breaks have been suggested by the competitive community as far back as before DoA4 even launched.

"just...what?" It's what will make people start playing 6 again. If 6 is so good, go play it. Otherwise, stop insinuating that my ideas are horrible and can't work. You can't know what works until you try it. And if 5 is so amazing, stop being disappointed that 6 flopped. You all are either content or lie to yourselves that 5 is a fun fighting game. I'm the only one who has the right to criticize DOA6 because I have NOTHING. If I liked 5 or 6 I wouldn't care as much.

No one is going back to DoA6. The game has been abandoned by the developers and the game itself is just outright bad both casually and competitively. They did a few things correct, but the overall game isn't good and your suggestions would make it even worse.

I'll just say, wall bounce isn't competitive and wasn't in any DOA prior to 5--if that's what you were referring to.

If you don't wanna get wall bounced then don't let your opponent position you towards the wall....Pretty simple concept. Wall bounces have been a thing since DoA3 and DoA4 was the only one that let you hold off the wall or stagger escape out of the wall stun and well...doa4 was not a good doa game at the competitive level and was very much a casual fighter.

Baiting a hold would be skill if the game wasn't 1-stun launch. If we don't hold, we lose 20% or more of our life. If we do hold, we lose even more of our life. There is no build up. Nothing is worked out. There's no strategy. The game just GIVES you damage. You get lucky once with a stun and your opponent is in a dire situation (a "dead or alive" situation if you will).
Even just requiring one more stun so someone can earn the right to do a launcher would make the game significantly better (2-stuns minimum).
I don't feel any of you earn your wins in DOA because it's such a cheap game. The characters literally carry you and do the work for you. The only people who should win are those I've seen that have crazy reflexes. Only about 4% of the people in the community are like that though. Everyone else wins because unfortunate circumstances happened. High tier players don't just call out moves, they control the entire match from beginning to end because of their superb knowledge of the game and excellent execution.

This just outright sounds like you don't know how to play neutral and don't learn any of the frame data. Good players don't play heavily into the stun game. They look for counter hits and whiff punishments and anyone to immediately get damage that is guaranteed. Watch some offline tournament play from top players and you'll notice that getting stunned is a minimum occurrence against players that are extremely good at playing the neutral game.

No offense, but you just sound like you don't know how to play the game...at all....Like, your rants are literally that of a bad player.

They're still helped by the fact that the game is cheap, but you can see the difference between the playstyle of someone who's a good player and ElectrifiedMann (who blocked me because I didn't want him to use inappropriate costumes), MyWickedWays, etc.
This isn't me trying to win an argument. I'm just explaining my thought process because apparently none of you understand me.

I don't keep up with the community much anymore outside of some old friends so I have no idea who WickedWays is.....but EMann is literally an old school player and has been literally one of the top players as far back as DoA4. He's not some nobody, he's an actual proven player who's competed and placed/won in major tournaments.

Also, really? An "inappropriate" costume? Who cares....

Team Nina hasn't made a good DOA outside of Dimension, but even that wasn't perfect. So I don't really care what they think. I'm bored because they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
If I had the ability to test my ideas a lot of them would go in the trash for sure. But I can't do anything because I just don't have that luxury. So I just talk. Whatever sticks sticks.

That credibility is getting even lower...DoAD? Really? That game was literally just DoA4, but worse because of a 3 point hold system. The only interesting thing they did mechanically was changing the launch height to be near max on counter hits so you could somewhat avoid the randomness of the long stun game that plagued doa4.

Not denying that they're good. But if Lisa and the fighting system itself was fair Emann would have had a harder time with me.

EMann would destroy you in any version of DoA.

LR isn't better than 6. lol

No, just no. I have my problems with LR due to a lot of watering down of mechanics that were introduced in vanilla doa5, but DoA5LR is objectively better than DoA6 in both competitive play and in content feature sets. Though I actually find it funny you think 6 is better while actively complaining about the stun system in 6 considering DoA5 carried over the design of DoA4's stun game where you had to get multiple hits in stun before you could get max launch height.

 

[KasumiLover]

I've never played vanilla DOA5, what mechanics did they water down?

Iirc some stuff like sit down stuns were toned down

It wasn't "your" idea. Throw breaks have been suggested by the competitive community as far back as before DoA4 even launched.


No one is going back to DoA6. The game has been abandoned by the developers and the game itself is just outright bad both casually and competitively. They did a few things correct, but the overall game isn't good and your suggestions would make it even worse.


If you don't wanna get wall bounced then don't let your opponent position you towards the wall....Pretty simple concept. Wall bounces have been a thing since DoA3 and DoA4 was the only one that let you hold off the wall or stagger escape out of the wall stun and well...doa4 was not a good doa game at the competitive level and was very much a casual fighter.


This just outright sounds like you don't know how to play neutral and don't learn any of the frame data. Good players don't play heavily into the stun game. They look for counter hits and whiff punishments and anyone to immediately get damage that is guaranteed. Watch some offline tournament play from top players and you'll notice that getting stunned is a minimum occurrence against players that are extremely good at playing the neutral game.

No offense, but you just sound like you don't know how to play the game...at all....Like, your rants are literally that of a bad player.

I don't keep up with the community much anymore outside of some old friends so I have no idea who WickedWays is.....but EMann is literally an old school player and has been literally one of the top players as far back as DoA4. He's not some nobody, he's an actual proven player who's competed and placed/won in major tournaments.

Also, really? An "inappropriate" costume? Who cares....

That credibility is getting even lower...DoAD? Really? That game was literally just DoA4, but worse because of a 3 point hold system. The only interesting thing they did mechanically was changing the launch height to be near max on counter hits so you could somewhat avoid the randomness of the long stun game that plagued doa4.


EMann would destroy you in any version of DoA.


No, just no. I have my problems with LR due to a lot of watering down of mechanics that were introduced in vanilla doa5, but DoA5LR is objectively better than DoA6 in both competitive play and in content feature sets. Though I actually find it funny you think 6 is better while actively complaining about the stun system in 6 considering DoA5 carried over the design of DoA4's stun game where you had to get multiple hits in stun before you could get max launch height.

Kinda disagree with the statement that they won't return back to 6. If they do an update or a new game to fix what 6 was it'll likely still use its mechanics, i don't think they'll step back and just use LR mechanics

 

[Raansu]

I've never played vanilla DOA5, what mechanics did they water down?

They changed the force tech system pretty heavily, removed a lot of guaranteed ground game setups from characters like Bass, removed several feint stuns, reduced the effectiveness of sit down stuns, removed a really cool mechanic that guaranteed a force tech from overhead hard knockdown moves, and a lot of little things that were character specific like changing Hitomi's side step kick from a high kick that would spin the opponent which guaranteed a back turn setup and made it a worthless mid kick that did a light stun.

A lot of characters got hit pretty hard while the top characters in vanilla 5 stayed strong or get stronger. DoA5LR just felt like Shimbori was no longer in charge as a lot of things felt closer and closer to the random BS from DoA4. It was still a solid game overall, but, minus some balance issues (like Helenas ridiculous loops) I felt vanilla 5 was still the best version of doa5. Though overall I'd still take 3.1 over any other doa game lol.

 

[Raansu]

Iirc some stuff like sit down stuns were toned down

Kinda disagree with the statement that they won't return back to 6. If they do an update or a new game to fix what 6 was it'll likely still use its mechanics, i don't think they'll step back and just use LR mechanics

A new game sure, but doa6 in its current form is dead and abandoned by the devs. It has less players/lobbies than doa4 did in the same time frame.

Despite how much doa4 was disliked competitively, it was still a really good causal game and held casual doa players for a long time. DoA 6 is an incomplete game plagued with the stigma of bad dlc practices.

The competitive community prefers doa5 and the casual community abandoned it immediately.

I'd be absolutely shocked if it got an update over just releasing a new game on the new gen consoles.

Personally I think doa6 has a lot of potential and the stun game brought some semblance of feel of the old school doa, but it just has too many problems with the fatal stun and meter mechanics.

 

[KasumiLover]

A new game sure, but doa6 in its current form is dead and abandoned by the devs. It has less players/lobbies than doa4 did in the same time frame.

Despite how much doa4 was disliked competitively, it was still a really good causal game and held casual doa players for a long time. DoA 6 is an incomplete game plagued with the stigma of bad dlc practices.

The competitive community prefers doa5 and the casual community abandoned it immediately.

I'd be absolutely shocked if it got an update over just releasing a new game on the new gen consoles.

Personally I think doa6 has a lot of potential and the stun game brought some semblance of feel of the old school doa, but it just has too many problems with the fatal stun and meter mechanics.

Yeah I agree. I think an update anyway would be too late anyway, they'd have to release an Ultimate or something much newer to win anyone over since you can't just stop support and then say hey new update a few years later.

 

[inochinagi]

The competitive community prefers doa5 and the casual community abandoned it immediately.

Even the modding community still seems to prefer DOA5 in general.

 

[NyaMiyamaFighter]

It wasn't "your" idea. Throw breaks have been suggested by the competitive community as far back as before DoA4 even launched.

What I meant is that you're not saying anything new that I didn't already think of.

your suggestions would make it even worse.

Disagree

If you don't wanna get wall bounced then don't let your opponent position you towards the wall....Pretty simple concept. Wall bounces have been a thing since DoA3 and DoA4 was the only one that let you hold off the wall or stagger escape out of the wall stun and well...doa4 was not a good doa game at the competitive level and was very much a casual fighter.

Oh yeah, that's why I didn't like DOA3 last time I played against someone. LOL Some walls should give guaranteed damage, not all.
DOA4 is less competitive, but it's more fun. Not fun enough for me to buy Xbox Live though.

Good players don't play heavily into the stun game. They look for counter hits and whiff punishments and anyone to immediately get damage that is guaranteed. Watch some offline tournament play from top players and you'll notice that getting stunned is a minimum occurrence against players that are extremely good at playing the neutral game.

An offline tourney I watched last year was between Eliot and someone else. It was so boring because they're just space the entire match and make minimal contact. Bad game design. Not fun. Not realistic.

no idea who WickedWays is.....but EMann is literally an old school player and has been literally one of the top players as far back as DoA4. He's not some nobody, he's an actual proven player who's competed and placed/won in major tournaments.

Also, really? An "inappropriate" costume? Who cares....

Never said he was a nobody.
I care about the costumes...

That credibility is getting even lower...DoAD? Really? That game was literally just DoA4, but worse because of a 3 point hold system. The only interesting thing they did mechanically was changing the launch height to be near max on counter hits so you could somewhat avoid the randomness of the long stun game that plagued doa4.

For these reasons I said DOAD wasn't perfect. But I'd play that in a heartbeat over 5 and 6.

EMann would destroy you in any version of DoA.

I've taken games off him before. But 20-2 is still me getting destroyed. lol
Even so, I'd still put up a better fight in a balanced game where cheap moves can't be exploited. That's just commonsense.

No, just no. I have my problems with LR due to a lot of watering down of mechanics that were introduced in vanilla doa5, but DoA5LR is objectively better than DoA6 in both competitive play and in content feature sets. Though I actually find it funny you think 6 is better while actively complaining about the stun system in 6 considering DoA5 carried over the design of DoA4's stun game where you had to get multiple hits in stun before you could get max launch height.

I went back to DOA5 a couple times. I appreciate what it's done, but DOA6 is more casual. Therefore it's more fair for everyone. I used to rage so hard playing 5 against Hayabusa players who put me in like 2 sit-down stuns before the critical burst. And if I held I'd get thrown for so much damage.
I always say this: DOA6 is too easy and DOA5 is too hard. I want a game that's in-between. That might be DOA2U.

you can't just stop support and then say hey new update a few years later.

You think an update to DOA6 would be better than my Gold Fighters idea? And I don't mean the nitty gritty details, just the concept of going back to their roots.

 

[Raansu]

You are beyond inconsistent with everything you type lol...You want long juggles gone, but then complain about how boring neutral game play is. You want more stuns, but then complain about getting stunned more often in doa5. You praise doa6 for being more casual, but then complain about the break hold and wanting it nerfed despite it being the ultimate casual mechanic. You're all over the place.

Its really clear that you don't know how to play and understand little of what makes a fighting game actually good competitively.

DoA2U was a good game, but I don't think its that middle ground you believe it is. It had a lot of mechanics that you complain about.