Community Flawed Mindset in the FGC

[The Spine]

I've been a part of the FGC for a little over four years. I've played various games competitively. I've been to tournaments and have witnessed high-level play. Over these four years, I've met a lot of people and quite a few of these people have a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to fighting games: The mindset of wanting to be the best.

Now, having this mindset isn't necessarily a bad thing to have. In theory, everyone wants to be the best in whatever they invest his or her free time in. However, this mindset is, unfortunately, naïve and immature. This is because competitive gaming is essentially based on probability. With most of the FGC, in tournaments, the odds are not in their favor. Of course, it's not impossible for an average player to "level up" to become a top tier player in their region, country, or the world. However, very specific things must happen in order for this to occur. Things such as time, tournament play, offline play against top players, a lot of lab time, and of course determination are the main components for making a top player, but not everything. A vast majority of the FGC doesn't have access to these things. This essentially makes getting to the top nearly impossible. This is because fighting games are based on probability. Average players simply aren't giving themselves the highest chances for success against these top level players. However, notice how I say nearly because it's not entirely impossible. Some people are simply gifted and it's their destiny to be one of the best. Anything can happen, but to further illustrate the odds in fighting games, here's a scenario:

We have Player A and Player B. Let's assume that each player spends an equal amount of time in the lab and understands the game at the same level, while also being able to attend tournaments regularly. Let's also assume that both players have spent roughly the same amount of time playing the game itself. Now, Player A constantly plays the game with people at his skill level, above his skill level, or high-level players at an arcade or weekly gathering. He or she really only plays with this group should they ever play online. However, Player B mostly plays against online randoms, with occasionally contacting extremely good players. Possibly even top tier players. However, there is hardly any long term interaction. Anything that has to do with a top player, Player B doesn't really get any advice other than from the one set or possibly one match if he or she is to be that unlucky. Now, if these two players were to face in a tournament, it's more likely for Player A to win, hands down. Why? Because Player A set the odds in his or her favor by simply by having the tools necessary and utilizing them in order to be better at the game. Of course, anything can happen, and it's not guaranteed, but do you see what I mean? It's probability. This is not to say players like Player B are not good, they could perhaps be great at the game. Though, the fact is, they're missing key ingredients in the recipe.

Now, I'm not trying to discourage you, and you're more than welcome to prove me wrong and become the best without Player A's factors. However, the mindset is flawed. You shouldn't try to be the best. You shouldn't compare yourself to others. Because ultimately, the journey with that mindset isn't fun, and many top players don't necessarily have the main goal to be the best in the world. They simply want to be the best that they can personally be. You shouldn't strive for being the best in comparison. You should strive for being the best that you can personally be. This journey shouldn't be about being the best, it should be about improving.



DUE NOTE THAT THIS IS MERELY JUST MY OPINION THROUGH EXPERIENCES AND OBSERVATION.

 

[Awesmic]

Thw fame that comes with becoming the best sure is tempting though. I don't blame them for wanting it. It guarantees the probability of being everyone's friend and decreases the amount of enemies you would have simply for not being good enough.

 

[Argentus]

I'm player B XD.

Though this is why I despise idiots who think "if you're not the best then you suck".

 

[KasumiLover]

Thw fame that comes with becoming the best sure is tempting though. I don't blame them for wanting it. It guarantees the probability of being everyone's friend and decreases the amount of enemies you would have simply for not being good enough.

In a way I kinda disagree with this. Some high level players can be major jerks in the long run when they get arrogant over themselves being high level at a game, which it is, just a game. When that happens then they will have very few people who actually want to be their friend. A good tourney player is imo say like Bboy, Sonic Fox, or Kwiggles, they play, win, and are just friendly people overall and don't let skill and obsession drive them, they just play and that's that. Those are the type of players I'd want to be friends with and that I'd respect.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

If BrolyLegs who plays with his fucking face and blind Mortal Kombat players can compete in tournaments at high levels, then player A, B, and everyone in this thread including myself just have to GIT GUD FUKEN SKRUBS.

 

[Awesmic]

In a way I kinda disagree with this. Some high level players can be major jerks in the long run when they get arrogant over themselves being high level at a game, which it is, just a game. When that happens then they will have very few people who actually want to be their friend. A good tourney player is imo say like Bboy, Sonic Fox, or Kwiggles, they play, win, and are just friendly people overall and don't let skill and obsession drive them, they just play and that's that. Those are the type of players I'd want to be friends with and that I'd respect.

That's easy to do when you're winning most of the time or have strong ties with said player winning most of the time.

The rest of us ordinary people who aren't so fortunate to win tourneys - much less do well in them consistently - don't have it anywhere nearly that easy. Good friggin' luck keeping a lot of friends the minute you lose poorly in a tournament after doing well in another and you don't have any connections to certain people. You'll be treated like garbage the minute you try to contribute anything to gameplay discussion, even if the info turns out to be correct. I'll tell you this right now... confirmation bias is a real pain and a half. When it happens to you, you'll see what I mean.

Sometimes it has nothing to do with arrogance. Sometimes people advocate the arrogance out of them. So I don't blame some people for being obsessed with wanting to be the best, because nobody wants to go through such bad experiences again.

 

[KasumiLover]

That's easy to do when you're winning most of the time or have strong ties with said player winning most of the time.

The rest of us ordinary people who aren't so fortunate to win tourneys - much less do well in them consistently - don't have it anywhere nearly that easy. Good friggin' luck keeping a lot of friends the minute you lose poorly in a tournament after doing well in another and you don't have any connections to certain people. You'll be treated like garbage the minute you try to contribute anything to gameplay discussion, even if the info turns out to be correct. I'll tell you this right now... confirmation bias is a real pain and a half. When it happens to you, you'll see what I mean.

Sometimes it has nothing to do with arrogance. Sometimes people advocate the arrogance out of them. So I don't blame some people for being obsessed with wanting to be the best, because nobody wants to go through such bad experiences again.

I can tell this has happened to you before. 0_o

 

[Tenro]

that's essentially the same thing as " can you pick yourself up after getting knocked down hard ? " about the friends topic , i can say only 1 thing , finding true friends in these times , especially in an FG atmosphere like this is RARE , no other way around it . and the top players do get arrogant after developing a consistent winning habit , it's nobody's fault , thats human nature for you . so they are kept in check sometimes with incidents like NEC16 . i don't need to say anything else lol .

and about being top players or not , i ll give a simple real example , DOA online , assume you got any rank above A and u enter a typical DOA lobby everyone will either kick you out on sight or automatically will be hostile to you for no goddamn reason and if you lose? be preapred for a chat box full of dumb comments , " oh i beat an S , oh i beat a emerald . oh i beat this or that dude " , man , nobody ever gives a thought even the other dude is human . anybody can have a slip up . a similar procedure goes in tourneys , instead that this time ur at botton of the line and you automatically have a tag of " oh a noob , oh a rookie , chh , not a chance past the pools " on your head so i ll say it's always has been 1 VS all in this aspect of the game and most probably always will be .

 

[KasumiLover]

That's the thing though, many people forget that rank does not matter. I've lost to lower rank players before, and I've beat higher rank ones as well, but the common belief by masses is that rank is a true reflection of skill....not saying that players who are fortunate enough to have a high didn't earn it, but it's hard to gauge. And there are quite a couple of U and S rank players who are total dicks in lobbies so many people get a warped idea in their head that all high level players are like that which is why lobbies are very kick happy towards players like that.

 

[The Spine]

It's not hard to make friends in the FGC unless your mindset forces you to believe so. It's not 1 vs all unless your mindset forces you to believe so. Those are extreme exaggerations for average or even high level players. The FGC pretty much reflects the real world because we're all diverse human beings. It's not like this community is completely cutthroat and we shouldn't be acting like it is. These issues also go beyond DoA if I may add.

 

[Giannola]

Good friggin' luck keeping a lot of friends the minute you lose poorly in a tournament after doing well in another and you don't have any connections to certain people. You'll be treated like garbage the minute you try to contribute anything to gameplay discussion, even if the info turns out to be correct. I'll tell you this right now... confirmation bias is a real pain and a half. When it happens to you, you'll see what I mean.

From the perspective of someone who hasn't been to a tournament (and who's not even very good online for that matter), I do feel like I have to disagree with this.

If people stop being you're "friend" after a tournament loss or poor performance, they were never your friend to begin with. They were hangers on, or lackeys, whatever term you like to use. Theres a big difference between a friend and a lackey, in game communitys or in everyday life. Fair enough being "the best" may get you alot of hangers on, maybe even some friends but there is a distinction to be made between the two.

 

[Awesmic]

It's not hard to make friends in the FGC unless your mindset forces you to believe so.

Having a change of mindset won't matter when many people's beliefs in the FGC is that - sadly enough - a person's skill defines their value of friendship. For example, if you can't perform 1-frame links consistently, drop combos, mash on negatives, choke on obvious setups, and you still manage to edge out a win on someone, bam.

Said person talks major crap about you to make sure you're hated by everyone, when in truth you were just playing and learning as you go. (Keep in mind no trash talk was ever exchanged, and nobody was sizing themselves up.) This is how shallow people can get with "friendships" in the FGC, and sometimes it takes months, even years, to repair the damage done from the shade thrown.

Believe it or not, even elitist encounters like this advocate one's obsessive desire to become the best. And at that point it becomes easy to lose sight of why you enjoyed the game to begin with It suddenly changes to a competition to impress everyone just to be acknowledged of that fact, when it shouldn't have to come to it.

It's not 1 vs all unless your mindset forces you to believe so.

I get that, but most of the spectators won't... and their reactions can be very influential to how others perceive you. And if it happens to be an undeserved negative perception, well... you're screwed.

The FGC pretty much reflects the real world because we're all diverse human beings. It's not like this community is completely cutthroat and we shouldn't be acting like it is. These issues also go beyond DoA if I may add.

Considering how often some people from other larger communities go out of their way to bash other smaller ones (and sometimes vice versa), I'd say it's still full of people stepping on toes to prove a point. It's got to the point that unless you're a top player from said smaller community repping your scene or have really good connections to said larger communities, you won't be able to get through to those people on why said lesser known game is great, even if what you say makes a lot of sense... and it shouldn't have to take all that to make people understand. But I digress.

 

[The Spine]

Having a change of mindset won't matter when many people's beliefs in the FGC is that - sadly enough - a person's skill defines their value of friendship. For example, if you can't perform 1-frame links consistently, drop combos, mash on negatives, choke on obvious setups, and you still manage to edge out a win on someone, bam.

Said person talks major crap about you to make sure you're hated by everyone, when in truth you were just playing and learning as you go. (Keep in mind no trash talk was ever exchanged, and nobody was sizing themselves up.) This is how shallow people can get with "friendships" in the FGC, and sometimes it takes months, even years, to repair the damage done from the shade thrown.

Believe it or not, even elitist encounters like this advocate one's obsessive desire to become the best. And at that point it becomes easy to lose sight of why you enjoyed the game to begin with It suddenly changes to a competition to impress everyone just to be acknowledged of that fact, when it shouldn't have to come to it.


I get that, but most of the spectators won't... and their reactions can be very influential to how others perceive you. And if it happens to be an undeserved negative perception, well... you're screwed.


Considering how often some people from other larger communities go out of their way to bash other smaller ones (and sometimes vice versa), I'd say it's still full of people stepping on toes to prove a point. It's got to the point that unless you're a top player from said smaller community repping your scene or have really good connections to said larger communities, you won't be able to get through to those people on why said lesser known game is great, even if what you say makes a lot of sense... and it shouldn't have to take all that to make people understand. But I digress.

Regarding your first paragraph, you're just describing a personal experience and not the FGC as a whole. Maybe DoA, but even so, I haven't encountered anybody who has devalued my friendship simply because I didn't perform to a certain standard. It happens, but from my observation and experience, that is an isolated incident. You can say otherwise though, we have had different experiences.

Don't devalue spectator's intelligence when it comes to watching on a stream. They are there to be entertained by watching other people play the game they like to see. If you make a mistake, people will react and notice, that's just how it is. That doesn't mean they will devalue you. Think of Woshige from last year's EVO, how he popped off even though he didn't win, and got destroyed and eliminated because he wasn't at the controller. It was fun, he probably gets teased about it, but I'm quite sure nobody sees him as a lesser player because of a mental slip-up. If a majority though, then alright, you proved me wrong.

Somebody somewhere will step on toes to prove a point. That's the way life is. As far as the in-between communities thing goes, let me put it this way: I don't like Smash, right? Anybody can tell me how great the game is, how helpful the community is, and how active the local communities. However, the fact is, I don't like Smash. I've tried it before, and I don't like it. Nobody could probably convince me to play it competitively or at all simply because I don't care for it much. That's nothing personal or a problem with the FGC just because a good portion of it doesn't want to play DoA (which I assume you're referring to). No matter how good the game actually is, people just don't want to play it for whatever reason.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Considering how often some people from other larger communities go out of their way to bash other smaller ones (and sometimes vice versa), I'd say it's still full of people stepping on toes to prove a point. It's got to the point that unless you're a top player from said smaller community repping your scene or have really good connections to said larger communities, you won't be able to get through to those people on why said lesser known game is great, even if what you say makes a lot of sense... and it shouldn't have to take all that to make people understand. But I digress.

Sadly, as much as I hate to admit it, people in my FGC scene didn't start to respect DOA5/DOA5LR until I started bodying them at the game, showing them how complex and deep the game actually is. It's a form of "beating" respect into the rest of scene, which I wish wasn't necessary. For a game like VF5FS, for instance, people already assume and know that the game is "legit", even if both players are playing like ass on the screen. It's an incredibly frustrating double standard.

 

[Argentus]

My issue is I've come across more than a handful of elitist cunts in the fgc who seem to believe "if you're not the best then you're scum", and that if you aren't mimicking tourney winners then you're trash.

Then the whole "win by any means" mindset a lot of the fgc hampers it as a whole because it minimalizes stuff too much. As opposed to the truly good players who just learn their characters and their tools, I'm talking about the wannabe tryhards who only try to rush in to spam whatever their biggest combo is.



Its part of why I have no interest in the tourney scene. The mindset is offputting.


Plus so much emphasis on just learning the biggest combos rather than actually getting good disgusts me

 

[Force_of_Nature]

My issue is I've come across more than a handful of elitist cunts in the fgc who seem to believe "if you're not the best then you're scum", and that if you aren't mimicking tourney winners then you're trash.

Then the whole "win by any means" mindset a lot of the fgc hampers it as a whole because it minimalizes stuff too much. As opposed to the truly good players who just learn their characters and their tools, I'm talking about the wannabe tryhards who only try to rush in to spam whatever their biggest combo is.



Its part of why I have no interest in the tourney scene. The mindset is offputting.


Plus so much emphasis on just learning the biggest combos rather than actually getting good disgusts me

If you think in any way that a "tourney" player is the type that focuses more on "learning the biggest combos rather than actually getting good", then you have no idea what the offline tournament scene is like. No, just no dude...

Autopiloting big-ass combos, with no neutral game, no metagame, and no defense will get you blown up so fast offline, you will wonder what the hell just happened.

What you're describing are a bunch of dickwads online that have probably never accomplished anything in their life, spewing degenerative shit to make other people feel like rubbish, whereas trying to make themselves feel superior. I feel that I do believe a huge hindrance in the Western FGC (as opposed to the Eastern/Japanese FGC) is the lack of a "community mentality" and too much emphasis on individual success. I respect people that contribute to the advancement of the FGC more than those that simply "win". It's why I contribute stuff to the community as opposed to just toting tourney wins.

 

[Brute]

Thw fame that comes with becoming the best sure is tempting though. I don't blame them for wanting it. It guarantees the probability of being everyone's friend and decreases the amount of enemies you would have simply for not being good enough.

I suppose if you're "tempted" by the superficial "friendship" of random gamers who only like you if you win.

That's easy to do when you're winning most of the time or have strong ties with said player winning most of the time.

The rest of us ordinary people who aren't so fortunate to win tourneys - much less do well in them consistently - don't have it anywhere nearly that easy. Good friggin' luck keeping a lot of friends the minute you lose poorly in a tournament after doing well in another and you don't have any connections to certain people. You'll be treated like garbage the minute you try to contribute anything to gameplay discussion, even if the info turns out to be correct. I'll tell you this right now... confirmation bias is a real pain and a half. When it happens to you, you'll see what I mean.

I've consistently performed the worst plays of my life on stream in tournaments, and I have never lost a single friend from such an incident. Perhaps what you perceive as "ordinary" (ie: your own experience, as implied by use of the word "us") is actually not ordinary. If you're losing friends it's not because of how you play, but because of how you act.

 

[Goarmagon]

If BrolyLegs who plays with his fucking face and blind Mortal Kombat players can compete in tournaments at high levels, then player A, B, and everyone in this thread including myself just have to GIT GUD FUKEN SKRUBS.

In my personal experience comparing your failure/success to someone else's is one of the fastest and most effective ways to drive yourself batshit insane.

I think the biggest thing that people need to do in the FGC is make their peace with where they are skill wise then work towards self surpassing. You will come across fuckboys but thats life. You will also com across people who are kind, helpful and supportive as you do in life. Just embrace the good and avoid the bad.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

In my personal experience comparing your failure/success to someone else's is one of the fastest and most effective ways to drive yourself batshit insane.

I think the biggest thing that people need to do in the FGC is make their peace with where they are skill wise then work towards self surpassing. You will come across fuckboys but thats life. You will also com across people who are kind, helpful and supportive as you do in life. Just embrace the good and avoid the bad.

I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S GONNA MAKE YOU GIT GUD. YOU JUST HAVE TO GET BETTER IN ORDER TO GIT GUD

no but seriously that was supposed to be inspiring

 

[Argentus]

I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S GONNA MAKE YOU GIT GUD. YOU JUST HAVE TO GET BETTER IN ORDER TO GIT GUD

no but seriously that was supposed to be inspiring

It is not.

I don't give a flying fuck about who won what tourney, I care about my own skill level.

I've played a couple of the best players on here (online mind you) and even managed to win a couple rounds. I know even those wins are flukes though so I still tried to improve my play.

Granted I don't really play DOA anymore but still.