TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
I'm still not going to tournaments or buying the full game for him though.
Hayate in DOA5U
- Thread starter TakedaZX
- Start date
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
So anyway, my issue is I don't understand why some choices were made. P+K only being a bound makes some sort of sense, though it might've made more sense to make it a SD stun in stun... but anyway on subject here's some guaranteed damage off the bounds/juggles off the bounds.
P+K, H3PP, 33KK (62)
P+K, dash in, 4P6P+K~K, BT 7K (63)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 3PP B!, 33KK (80)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 3PP B!, 8P8K/8P, BT 7K (80/82)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, delay, BT 7K (80)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33 (cancel BT), 7K (82)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33, (cancel BT), 8P8K/8P, BT 7K (86/88)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33 (cancel BT), 33KK (86)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, 6P+K~K, BT 7K (91)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, 66KKK (93)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, H3PP, 7K (94)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, H3PP, 33KK (98)
Only issue I'm seeing is in a lot of these cases, there's much better options. Bounds don't follow the building the threshold building rule. If I launch with P+K raw, I will always be able to do h3pp, 33kk but there's nothing more to look forward to later in the threshold by using it since 6P+K~P+K outclasses it on raw damage and also on juggle potential (and ease of use).
So why am I using 4KK later in the threshold when its not 2 in 1 and 4K6K is, plus the damage of 4K6K's bnb is much higher than that of 4KK's, the only time 4KK is really viable is as a mix-up starter... though it launched before anyway. I don't see why it didn't in DOA5 in the first place.
Why am I setting up for a BT 4K (end of threshold only) off of 4K or 4P when I can trade those out for 3P and 9P to get the freedom at almost any launcher, and more importantly why am I giving up 4K6K for a negligible amount of damage when the only mix-up is mid kick and 4k6k is a 2 in 1... once again.
It makes half-sense in some aspects but in other aspects, it seems incomplete... and that's a mechanical complaint, not a Hayate one.
P+K, H3PP, 33KK (62)
P+K, dash in, 4P6P+K~K, BT 7K (63)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 3PP B!, 33KK (80)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 3PP B!, 8P8K/8P, BT 7K (80/82)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, delay, BT 7K (80)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33 (cancel BT), 7K (82)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33, (cancel BT), 8P8K/8P, BT 7K (86/88)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4KK, B!, 33 (cancel BT), 33KK (86)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, 6P+K~K, BT 7K (91)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, 66KKK (93)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, H3PP, 7K (94)
(4P, BT 2P, 3K), 4P/4K, BT 4K B!, H3PP, 33KK (98)
Only issue I'm seeing is in a lot of these cases, there's much better options. Bounds don't follow the building the threshold building rule. If I launch with P+K raw, I will always be able to do h3pp, 33kk but there's nothing more to look forward to later in the threshold by using it since 6P+K~P+K outclasses it on raw damage and also on juggle potential (and ease of use).
So why am I using 4KK later in the threshold when its not 2 in 1 and 4K6K is, plus the damage of 4K6K's bnb is much higher than that of 4KK's, the only time 4KK is really viable is as a mix-up starter... though it launched before anyway. I don't see why it didn't in DOA5 in the first place.
Why am I setting up for a BT 4K (end of threshold only) off of 4K or 4P when I can trade those out for 3P and 9P to get the freedom at almost any launcher, and more importantly why am I giving up 4K6K for a negligible amount of damage when the only mix-up is mid kick and 4k6k is a 2 in 1... once again.
It makes half-sense in some aspects but in other aspects, it seems incomplete... and that's a mechanical complaint, not a Hayate one.
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OK guys for Hayates new power launcher I find it easier to connect his 4k6k than have to guess and wait to connect his regular 6k 
. The 4k6k looks like it hits at maximum high! Its possible for a full juggle! I Like to connect his 9p then PP6PK like 95 damage for light- mid weights, his 4k6k 66kkk for 90 damage on heavy weights rather than the pb which is only 80
. The 4k6k looks like it hits at maximum high! Its possible for a full juggle! I Like to connect his 9p then PP6PK like 95 damage for light- mid weights, his 4k6k 66kkk for 90 damage on heavy weights rather than the pb which is only 80
Akumasama
Active Member
Did they change something in the input frames for Raijin? I can't seem to get the third part.
It's almos as the input buffer doesn't allow more than a certain amount (say, 2?) of wrong directions.
But with a gamepad it's very difficult to get exact directions when you have to do the third part, since you're actually pressing 2 different buttons to make a diagonal (8+6 to get a 9).
I dunno, maybe with an arcade stick it's easier? I remember it being difficult but not this much back on DoA4.
Something wrong in me or something changed in Ultimate? Any suggestions to get it right inCommand Training?
It's almos as the input buffer doesn't allow more than a certain amount (say, 2?) of wrong directions.
But with a gamepad it's very difficult to get exact directions when you have to do the third part, since you're actually pressing 2 different buttons to make a diagonal (8+6 to get a 9).
I dunno, maybe with an arcade stick it's easier? I remember it being difficult but not this much back on DoA4.
Something wrong in me or something changed in Ultimate? Any suggestions to get it right inCommand Training?
What juggle was Hayate doing on 46H & Narikryu in DOA5? Because I got a few juggles I found from when I was in the lab breaking him down. I know some 4K6K ones were found already. Not really sure if some of them I've most players do these or not:
Narikryu:
4K6K 66KKK (BNB already found)
4K6K PP6PK (BNB Heavysets)
6K 6K PP6PK does the same dmg as 4K6K 66KKK
New I haven't seen: 4K46K 8P PP6PK is 95 CH (tried on Alpha. Think Tenryuga named this 1 already)
6K 8P PP6PK is a good replacement juggle for heavyset characters too at 85 on CH
46H
4K6K 8P PP6PK (tried this on Alpha. Tenryuga named it off already)
New 1 I haven't seen or I don't think 9P 4K6K 7K 91 CH (Tested on Ayane)
Heavyset juggle was 4P 6P+K K 7K but this was in 5.
My bad if someone already listed them. I'm just trying to see if we're on the same page.
EDIT: Tested 46H's 9P 4K6K 7K on Jann Lee & it works.
Narikryu:
4K6K 66KKK (BNB already found)
4K6K PP6PK (BNB Heavysets)
6K 6K PP6PK does the same dmg as 4K6K 66KKK
New I haven't seen: 4K46K 8P PP6PK is 95 CH (tried on Alpha. Think Tenryuga named this 1 already)
6K 8P PP6PK is a good replacement juggle for heavyset characters too at 85 on CH
46H
4K6K 8P PP6PK (tried this on Alpha. Tenryuga named it off already)
New 1 I haven't seen or I don't think 9P 4K6K 7K 91 CH (Tested on Ayane)
Heavyset juggle was 4P 6P+K K 7K but this was in 5.
My bad if someone already listed them. I'm just trying to see if we're on the same page.
EDIT: Tested 46H's 9P 4K6K 7K on Jann Lee & it works.
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TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
I don't even have to turn on the game to tell you that its an Alpha only combo, considering she's the only "featherweight" character now. 8P whiffs on Kasumi and heavier. The BNB is really 4K6K, PP6PK because it works on lights and mids and its more damage than the old BNB which was 4P6P+K~K, BT 7K. It can't measure up now, because of the cut in damage on 6P+K~K from 20+25 to 20+16. I'm also almost sure 4P was 25 damage before 5U as well.
I don't understand the logic behind these characters damage nerfs when they're already working harder than some.
[Edit] Looking back, I guess this post kind of sounded like I was giving you attitude. Sorry man, I didn't mean it like that. I just hate Team Ninja's changes to DOA.
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Nah it's good man. I get what you were saying. It would help if he was just a tad bit safer. The reason why I listed the juggles because I tend to either use certain ones that'll actually work on certain characters in order for my damage to hurt like I do with Kasumi & Ayane (& Momiji). Only thing is like the 1 I listed like 9P 4K6K 7K (doesn't work on heavysets) does only 1 pt more than what 4K6K does, but I haven't weighed in on the added wall damage in yet to see which 1 I'm wanting to tie into my style of play with him. Same for 6K 6K PP6PK & 4k6k 66kkk. That's all.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
There's nothing incredible. 7P, 3PP, 7P still works on BT opponents very well. 3K isn't reliable anymore in any situation honestly.
I think that the wind dash K hit a huge damage nerf to the second kick. iirc it was 20+25 and now its 20+16.
4P may have been nerfed on damage but I doubt it. 33K went from 25 to 20, making 66KKK viable as it is (I wanted it to stun and transition into his wind dash -.-). 9K is almost completely useless as a launcher now since the gravity increase make it impossible to even 8p, pp6pk after the fact. 66KKK and 9KKK make more sense as juggles to rely on now because they're less work and you're not losing out on much damage by using them over 8p, pp6pk or 4p6p+k~k, bt 7k which is only 3 more points of damage than 8p~.
8P on NH doesn't give a pp6pk anymore. Best that you just do BT 7K.
33KK and 9KKK don't bound if you land only the last hits... not necessary for me to bring up but I think this would make sense. These used to launch anyway in DOA4 if they were the only hits.
236P W! 8P, PP6PK doesn't work on mid weights anymore. You should check your juggles if they included this series.
44KK/6P4K/66P4K hasn't netted me any amazing things. I'd feel better off with 66P's guard stun increased making it -9 so that he could follow up with 66PP/66PK/66P2K without being interrupted since you can SS and interrupt the follow ups already. 6P(delay)K does its job as well so... yea waste of space outside of a power launcher juggle I suppose.
The teleport is ok. I haven't used it correctly yet though...
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Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
Anyone found a good use for his fake kick? (44KK)
Pokerking87
Active Member
For the power launcher ~ 44kk - 66kkk
Jin Masters
Member
Ufle
New Member
what is "44kk"?
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
New find:
4P6P+K~P+K/Stun to Launch 6P+K~P+K has a new BNB that's very consistent due to the change in the relaunch animation.
4P6P+K~P+K, 8P, BT 7K works on lights and mids at all times. 60 Damage. This is VERY good for one reason. Its stylish. 4P6P+K, 33KK comes in at 58 damage so its not really viable anymore.
BE WARY THOUGH. When you're pushing your opponent against the wall (like you should be when pressuring at all with Hayate), 8P will whiff in this case, this is one of those cases where you need to gauge your range well and you can follow up with PP6PK/PP2KP in these cases instead of 8P, BT 7K. Don't try those out in the open though because the second jab will whiff.
NH 6P+K~P+K is still 33KK or 6PK for a juggle.
6P+K~P+K also relaunches now in a juggle but not high enough to really follow up on. Its useless in singles but in TAG, there might be some uses to it for getting a good damage extender. I'll check this later with @Tenryuga cause I have some ideas including Ein and Kasumi.
Have fun guys, I'm afraid I spoke a little too soon though I might not be completely satisfied still.
Also, 46H, 6P4K, 7K. You're welcome.
4P6P+K~P+K/Stun to Launch 6P+K~P+K has a new BNB that's very consistent due to the change in the relaunch animation.
4P6P+K~P+K, 8P, BT 7K works on lights and mids at all times. 60 Damage. This is VERY good for one reason. Its stylish. 4P6P+K, 33KK comes in at 58 damage so its not really viable anymore.
BE WARY THOUGH. When you're pushing your opponent against the wall (like you should be when pressuring at all with Hayate), 8P will whiff in this case, this is one of those cases where you need to gauge your range well and you can follow up with PP6PK/PP2KP in these cases instead of 8P, BT 7K. Don't try those out in the open though because the second jab will whiff.
NH 6P+K~P+K is still 33KK or 6PK for a juggle.
6P+K~P+K also relaunches now in a juggle but not high enough to really follow up on. Its useless in singles but in TAG, there might be some uses to it for getting a good damage extender. I'll check this later with @Tenryuga cause I have some ideas including Ein and Kasumi.
Have fun guys, I'm afraid I spoke a little too soon though I might not be completely satisfied still.
Also, 46H, 6P4K, 7K. You're welcome.
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
I'm the only one to want this move in the command list? 3:03
Aven Kujo-Gin
Well-Known Member
Really? I rarely pay attention to the animation cuz I'm to busy trying to input the correct directions.