"I'm coming!" Ein's general discussion thread
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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And Super Ein.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
I just think the guy needs to be clearly different from Hitomi overall as far as playstyle.
I vote that Ein gets a stance. Not something like the BKO (Hele) or Laydown (Brad) but more so like Kasumi's and Hayate's. A better example is for you Tekken players, something like Jin's Crouching Demon Stance. Basically it's a step forward which allows Jin to cancel into mix-ups. The options are a double mid punch combo (often used as a juggle ender), a crouching mid punch with a sidestep built in (might not really tech crouch), a dragon kick (guard breaks and knocksdown, big damage), and a low sweep (combo at the wall only and often used as a juggle ender when the mid punch combo won't reach.
Ein could probably work with something like that as well. I propose a small stunning uppercut or punch like 3p or 66pp (just the last punch), a stunning knee like 6k (for stunning and threshold break launching), his low sweep, and his hokage throw or a dragon gunner type --->throw<--- that nets frame advantage and allows him to work on a new threshold so it could be another dragon gunner just without the OH properties.
Also I'd like for some of his old launchers and juggles to stick. 1KK on threshold break/hch should stay exclusive to him. It behaves like Hitomi's 6KKK basically. An example of a juggle that should be exclusive to him is like post CB 9K, 4H+K, BT 1K6PK (DOA4 Juggle)
Here's a visual example of the combo.
(At 0:43 in the first video)
(In this one, the first two matches are full of them)
I vote that Ein gets a stance. Not something like the BKO (Hele) or Laydown (Brad) but more so like Kasumi's and Hayate's. A better example is for you Tekken players, something like Jin's Crouching Demon Stance. Basically it's a step forward which allows Jin to cancel into mix-ups. The options are a double mid punch combo (often used as a juggle ender), a crouching mid punch with a sidestep built in (might not really tech crouch), a dragon kick (guard breaks and knocksdown, big damage), and a low sweep (combo at the wall only and often used as a juggle ender when the mid punch combo won't reach.
Ein could probably work with something like that as well. I propose a small stunning uppercut or punch like 3p or 66pp (just the last punch), a stunning knee like 6k (for stunning and threshold break launching), his low sweep, and his hokage throw or a dragon gunner type --->throw<--- that nets frame advantage and allows him to work on a new threshold so it could be another dragon gunner just without the OH properties.
Also I'd like for some of his old launchers and juggles to stick. 1KK on threshold break/hch should stay exclusive to him. It behaves like Hitomi's 6KKK basically. An example of a juggle that should be exclusive to him is like post CB 9K, 4H+K, BT 1K6PK (DOA4 Juggle)
Here's a visual example of the combo.
(At 0:43 in the first video)
(In this one, the first two matches are full of them)
Zeo
Well-Known Member
So, noticed a few things in this video.
- 8P Causes some type of unique knockdown on counter hit, maybe it has a followup of some kind if they don't tech?
- 1KK causes a ground bounce on HCH. That's pretty great. If it causes that or at least a sit-down on CH or in stun then we are seriously in business.
- He got his OH back. That's good for him but it could also mean it's universal now, I seriously hope not.
Bonus: PP2KK sends the opponent across the screen again.
Always hated that it didn't do that in 4.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
So, noticed a few things in this video.
- 8P Causes some type of unique knockdown on counter hit, maybe it has a followup of some kind if they don't tech?
- 1KK causes a ground bounce on HCH. That's pretty great. If it causes that or at least a sit-down on CH or in stun then we are seriously in business.
- He got his OH back. That's good for him but it could also mean it's universal now, I seriously hope not.
Bonus: PP2KK sends the opponent across the screen again.
8P is the heavy bound that Kasumi got from 66KK in the "vs Momiji" trailer. He probably can follow up I hope.
1KK's ground bounce is a lot less than before. I hope that changes, or at least that the relaunch of 4h+k is good enough to do those combos from the videos in my last post.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Hmmm Ein seems like before but with minor changes going from 2U/DoA3 Ein to 5U Ein shouldn't be TOO much of a problem.. however I'm still gonna go straight into practice mode once I configure all my stuff
Zeo
Well-Known Member
This thread is too dead. I'm going to do what I did in the Hayate thread and revise my list of wanted changes for Ein in 5U. Maybe it'll spark up something interesting seeing as we got basically no real footage of him at E3 or info on him.
Strike Changes:
- 10 Frame Jab
- should be +1 on hit.
- should be 13 or preferably 12 frames.
- is confirmed to be nerfed to CB status. The range looks nerfed as well. It should be at least semi-safe from a distance as it was in 4.
- Should cause a crumple stun on NH and a BT stun on CH/HCH.
-, , , , , , , , ,
and should all be safe on block.
- and (the 2nd hit of should be sit-down-stuns and should cause a SDS on crouched opponents.
- Should be a guard break at around +5
- Should obviously guard break. Doesn't really make sense to give this advantage, just enough to be safe. Probably leave at neutral or +1.
- The finishing kick of and should be a guard break and give around +4~+7
- Most telegraphed move in his arsenal. Should either be unholdable or cause a guard break of at least +15, enough to guarantee an opening. It should also cause a ground bounce on NH as well as CH and HCH and guarantee followups (eg, > /)
- should be unholdable.
- and should also ground bounce on NH and CH and have guaranteed followups.
-, and should cause unholdable stuns at BT and be able to chain together for a guaranteed BT combo.
- Should return to DOA2U/3 status. Unholdable Mid-K launcher.
- The finishing kick of all his string variants should remain a mid kick.
- should stagger the opponent at range on NH, but cause a trip stun if landed at close range as well as cause a trip stun at all ranges on CH and a knockdown on HCH.
Other Changes:
-, , , , , , and all kick ending variants of his strings should be tracking moves.
- He should get a mid punch finisher to his string. Using as the finisher would do nicely.
- should be a 2-in-1 on hit.
- The last hit of string should be a new sit-down stun (on both NH and CH) and a standalone strike ().
- His sidesteps should be the punch finisher from and (release) respectively and SS being .
It was controversial but I also wanted his OH back. Which he is confirmed to have.
Strike Changes:
- 10 Frame Jab
-
should be +1 on hit.-
should be 13 or preferably 12 frames.-
is confirmed to be nerfed to CB status. The range looks nerfed as well. It should be at least semi-safe from a distance as it was in 4.-
Should cause a crumple stun on NH and a BT stun on CH/HCH.-
, , , , , , , , , and should all be safe on block.-
and (the 2nd hit of should be sit-down-stuns and should cause a SDS on crouched opponents.-
Should be a guard break at around +5-
Should obviously guard break. Doesn't really make sense to give this advantage, just enough to be safe. Probably leave at neutral or +1.- The finishing kick of
and should be a guard break and give around +4~+7-
Most telegraphed move in his arsenal. Should either be unholdable or cause a guard break of at least +15, enough to guarantee an opening. It should also cause a ground bounce on NH as well as CH and HCH and guarantee followups (eg, > /)-
should be unholdable.-
and should also ground bounce on NH and CH and have guaranteed followups.-
, and should cause unholdable stuns at BT and be able to chain together for a guaranteed BT combo.-
Should return to DOA2U/3 status. Unholdable Mid-K launcher.- The finishing kick of all his
string variants should remain a mid kick.-
should stagger the opponent at range on NH, but cause a trip stun if landed at close range as well as cause a trip stun at all ranges on CH and a knockdown on HCH.Other Changes:
-
, , , , , , and all kick ending variants of his strings should be tracking moves.- He should get a mid punch finisher to his
string. Using as the finisher would do nicely.-
should be a 2-in-1 on hit.- The last hit of
string should be a new sit-down stun (on both NH and CH) and a standalone strike ().- His sidesteps should be the punch finisher from
and (release) respectively and SS being .It was controversial but I also wanted his OH back. Which he is confirmed to have.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
I know TN said they made him play the exact same, but after seeing some matches, I hope they actually gave him some type of new moves.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Minus the PB I'm sure he'll have one or two new moves of SOME kind they changed up Leon's moveset and everyone elses so why not Ein right?
While I adore the fact he plays the same I wouldn't be against him gaining more strings, throws and mix ups hell, I wouldn't even mind it if they incorporated some of Hitomi's moves and/or Hayate's more simpler moves/strings just to give him more to play with.
While I adore the fact he plays the same I wouldn't be against him gaining more strings, throws and mix ups hell, I wouldn't even mind it if they incorporated some of Hitomi's moves and/or Hayate's more simpler moves/strings just to give him more to play with.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Should OHs really be offered to only grapplers?
OHs are throws that work as holds. They beat all types of strikes (Standing beats high and mid, Crouching beats low). They beat guarding. They beat other offensive holds and defensive holds (granted the OH becomes active before the opposing OH).
But what's really messed up is If they're interrupted with a strike that doesn't stun on NH (i.e. a jab) They're rewarded by putting the OH user at advantage.
So basically if you safe poke or free cancel a string against someone, you can cover your ass with an OH. If they attack and it does interrupt, it's NH so it has to be a NH stun (which usually isn't a quick strike) just to get the offensive momentum for them making a poor decision or being read.
(i.e. JL goes for a p2p. He gets blocked and the opponent decides to counter poke the p2p with a jab just to test the waters and then he lands the jab on NH. This happens because the JL player went to DG his troubles away. Why is the opponent punished with -frames for making a good read on an interrupt?)
Another deal is it shuts down defensive options in stun. If you stun someone and pop out an OH, they cannot attack, they cannot guard, and they cannot hold. The OH will absorb them. If they throw, now they've risked a hi counter launch and stun which will beat ducking as well.
OH's walk around the triangle system a bit by taking on the throw and hold category. With frame advantage it wouldn't be an issue but making them exclusive just makes them kind of powerful when covering their asses in the game's current state.
Cool.
aaaand my opinion is unchanged. Grapplers get them with certain unique circumstances (a la Brad Wong).
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Like I said they can keep them if NH gets frame advantage on the regular. There's no reason for them to have it that good otherwise.
Call me crazy, but I don't understand why any move in the game is negative on NH. Like seriously... they punish you for getting in? At worst a move should be neutral.
I just think the solution is in altering move frama data to not be negative, not giving everyone OHs.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I think that's the best solution, but in the games current state OH's are a lot more powerful than they should be because of this.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
Not looking great for the karate master. His gameplan hasn't changed much which could be bad with all the buffs and changes everyone else is getting. 4H+K whiffed in his old threshold BnB too. He might have just been too far but it looks like it just doesn't launch high enough to link. This is very bad.
Only upside is that His jab MIGHT be + or neutral and 3p MIGHT be 12 frames. That or he's just as unsafe as he was and the other player could have beat him out any time he wanted. Pray it's the former.
Only upside is that His jab MIGHT be + or neutral and 3p MIGHT be 12 frames. That or he's just as unsafe as he was and the other player could have beat him out any time he wanted. Pray it's the former.
JAG THE GEMINI
Active Member
OH is back, old 66KKK, 4K, 33K PPP and his sweep... Looks pretty solid to me.
Only time will tell how good he can compete in a game like DOA5U. I see Problems to stop "step-crazy" opponents with good and reliable moves... And will he be still as unsafe as ever... ? We shall see.
Only time will tell how good he can compete in a game like DOA5U. I see Problems to stop "step-crazy" opponents with good and reliable moves... And will he be still as unsafe as ever... ? We shall see.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
From what little I have actually seen, he has slightly buffed (and in some cases nerfed, such as his 6P+K which is now his CB) moves and properties from DoA4.
And apparently his 7P is his PB, we'll have to see what his sidestep attacks are or if he even has any at all.
I haven't once seen anyone sidestep with Ein yet.
Fortunately though, there's only 1 month left until the 6th September so I can finally get my hands on him (games come out fridays here in the UK) but by then people should have some good stuff on him... or bad, depending if he's a copy & paste job or not.
And apparently his 7P is his PB, we'll have to see what his sidestep attacks are or if he even has any at all.
I haven't once seen anyone sidestep with Ein yet.
Fortunately though, there's only 1 month left until the 6th September so I can finally get my hands on him (games come out fridays here in the UK) but by then people should have some good stuff on him... or bad, depending if he's a copy & paste job or not.
JAG THE GEMINI
Active Member
A viable Ein would be the only reason for me to play DOA5U competitively... Leon would be an option, but I just can´t play DOA without Ein I guess... his stile is so clean, so powerful... yet simpel so you can focus on the opponent and the fight. I like that so much... It feels so much more... intuitive to me.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Low tier, high tier, wtf tier haha I'm just glad he's back.
However, I highly doubt he'll ever be top tier like in 2U again.
He'll most likely be doomed as his DoA4/Dimension iteration but as I said to Zeo, a low-tier/mid-tier Ein is better than no Ein at all.
Plus, after a while he could get patched to have new moves or better properties, look at Hayate in Vanilla 5 he was terrible to start with now he's much better. (still bad compared to 3.1/2 or DoA4 though)
However, I highly doubt he'll ever be top tier like in 2U again.
He'll most likely be doomed as his DoA4/Dimension iteration but as I said to Zeo, a low-tier/mid-tier Ein is better than no Ein at all.
Plus, after a while he could get patched to have new moves or better properties, look at Hayate in Vanilla 5 he was terrible to start with now he's much better. (still bad compared to 3.1/2 or DoA4 though)