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Ninja Gaiden Thread

dg1995

dg1995

Member
Am I the only one that doesn't get the hatred for Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2?

I mean, yeah I get it that Black is better than Sigma 1.(Since Sigma 1 adds an unskippable playable character that drags the game down similar to V in DMC 5.)

As for Sigma 2, I have searched the internet forums and from what I have found Sigma 2 and 2 are kinda equal.(Some stuff is better in vanilla 2 while some stuff is better in Sigma 2.)
This is the fairest comparison between these 2 that I have found in a Reddit reply which isn't "Sigma 2 sucks because blood has been removed!"
Sigma 2 takes a clear and good step forward, but for each step forward, it also takes one step back. Ninja Gaiden 2 was a mess of a game, frame-rate issues abound, crashes, soft locks and more, Sigma 2 has none of those (step forward), but to compensate has no blood and less enemies at the same time (step backwards), to compensate for this enemies take much more damage (step backwards), but fights allow or way more tactics and moves to be used now that the fights are smaller (step fowards). Sigma 2 had less chaotic battles (step backwards) but as a result also felt a bit more fair and you could actually no-damage the game without UT-spam (step forward). NG2 was rightfully hated for it's ranged combat emphasis which Sigma 2 scaled down (step forward), only to buff enemies up the waazo with nearly 5x hitpoints and instant kill attacks; instead of dying because of massive nukes from afar slowly, you die nearly instantly for one mistake (step backwards). The original had issues with farming essence for higher weapons, which Sigma 2 fixed (step foward) by making essence absolutely pointless (step backwards). It also added new weapons (step forward) while removing others (step backwards). It added costumes (step forward) but removed others (step backwards). It added online co-op for mission mode (step forward) but removed solo play from these missions (step backward). The co-op had a lot of missions added to them (step forward) but the later ones were insanely hard and were riddled with lag and framerate issues (backwards we go). It added a mission select (forward), but removed New Game Plus (backwards). Sigma 2 added other playable characters (forward) but you couldn't skip those chapters (backwards). Annoying bosses and areas were completely removed (step forwards) but the Tests of Valor were also removed (step back).

And I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Sigma 2 was a more streamlined, functional game. It had co-op, fun costumes, stable framerate, more content and the combat was less messy and more elegant. NG2 was pure chaos, explosions everywhere, blood everywhere and each fight felt like a fight to survive, but sometimes when you died you felt it was more the game just playing tricks than you actually screwing up. Each had their plus and downsides.
Click to expand...
 
Brute

Brute

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Some of my gripes with Sigma 2:

-Weapon upgrades are locked behind chapter progress, so you're stuck with level 2 weapons and limited movesets throughout most of the game.
-The bow is always on your back in-game, and it looks ridiculous, but magically disappears in every cutscene (because it looks ridiculous).
-Ryu was remodeled. Personal preference, but the Sigma 2 Ryu model looks way too angry to take seriously.
-Reskinned enemies are damage sponges that never kill you but also never die. Mashing them to death is boring.
-Chapter 2 is at day time rather than night time, and it feels way less cinematic.
-The blue UI is really stupid and doesn't fit the tone of the game at all (unlike the red, which does perfectly).
-The original Xbox 360 version's Missions are gone, so you don't get the endless single-weapon survival modes, which were fun as hell.

In addition to all those things, there's the usual business that I'm sure you've heard a thousand times over by now.

There's a lot to dislike.
 
Fiend Busa

Fiend Busa

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@DestructionBomb @UpSideDownGRUNT

Sigma 2 Vita also had a brand new mode called Ninja Race which is pretty fun. I think it was confirmed to be in the collection release based on the Trophy list leak.

@dg1995 @Brute

Agree with everything Brute said. They also cut out a lot of content for no reason.

My gripes and things removed:

1. All the survival challenges in Mission Mode were excluded
2. All the Test of Valors were removed
3. The load times are horrible
4. The load times to just switch your weapon/ninpo can take upwards of 30 seconds
5. Removal of weapons such as incendiary shuriken's
6. The game pacing is really slow & boring compared to NG2/NGRE. There's hardly any enemies per battle and some area's are just devoid of anything where Vanilla 2 was not, especially chapter 11
7. They streamlined the Muramasa shop and upgrade system. Basically you can only upgrade your weapons where the game designer's think it's appropriate like Brute mentioned. No idea why they did this.
8. Most the enemies are just damage sponges (doesn't bother me as much but it kills the pacing) - NG3/NGRE isn't like this even on Master/Ultimate Ninja. I assume Team Ninja did this to make up for the lack of enemies on screen at any given time. Seems like it was a development limitation at that time. Maybe Team Ninja weren't up to snuff with how to efficiently program for the PS3's cell processor at that time. I mean they could've just lowered the resolution as Sigma 2 runs higher than Vanilla 2 but I bet reviewers would of bashed the game for this as it was near the beginning of the HD era at that time, but then again, NGRE runs on a pretty abysmal resolution and that came out in 2013 lol...we'll never know :D
9. The non survival mission modes, you can play online with another person but Team Ninja decided that if you want to play solo or can't find a partner, you can't opt OUT to not use an A.I partner which makes some of the Ultimate Ninja missions impossible to solo.

NG2 has a bunch of issues of it's own. Horrible stunlock, IS spam, performance issues, a lot of bugs, some questionable bosses (that worm in the green cave comes to mind), some enemies having no hit stun like the Wolves. You're basically screwed if your in a middle of a string that has a lot of recovery frames making shuriken cancel impossible. They'll grab right through your string lol. Bosses died way too fast, hilariously fast.

I'd still rather play NG2 over NGS2 any day even with it's fault. It's a lot more fun and fast paced. NGS2 is a snooze fest and boring, even on Master Ninja.

I still don't get why Team Ninja can't add gore to NGS2 collection version or adjust some stuff like weapon upgrading, enemy count & hp. They can spend time coding in balance changes & adding HERO mode but for some reason, with my noob level of programming skills/knowledge, restoring gore to NGS2 would take a lot less dev time than adding HERO mode or balance adjustments. Even taking the least effort approach, they can just recolor the purple mist particle to red and call it a day. DONE lol!
 
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dg1995

dg1995

Member
The loading time and weapon change loading times issues will obviously get fixed in this remaster though.

But I rather play a working game than a game where it's boss can suddenly go out of bonds and force me to reload the game from the last save station.
 
Fiend Busa

Fiend Busa

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Yeah, to each there own!

I'll most likely start off with NGS2 to beat all the team missions since team Ninja said they adjusted it for solo play. That'll be something fresh and exciting I'm looking forward. Remainder of my time after that will just be soloing all the Ninja Trials and if modding takes off, maybe a return to NGS2 again!

Probably won't touch NGS haha. Play 2004/NGB to death as a kid. I can't seen to enjoy playing NG1 much nowadays for some reason!

Tbh I'm most excited for the modding scene in PC!

@dg1995 that's not always the case. The PS4/X1 still have 5400rpm HDD drives unless a user manually updated it even then, SSD performance is limited on the old consoles.

The BC version on X1X has no loading performance increase and that runs direct on the HDD.

Unless TN optimizes NGS2 it might stay the same aside from the PS5/XbxSeries/PC with just how faster modern storage is nowadays.
 
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dg1995

dg1995

Member
The only problem I have with the PC version is this that it doesn't support keyboard and mouse.

X-Men wolverine origins game which is a good NG clone supported K&M properly. Why Tecmo can't add that to this game ?

Some of you may say that a controller is better. But imo K&M makes camera control much better and easier.
 
UpSideDownGRUNT

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
dg1995 said:
Why Tecmo can't add that to this game ?
Click to expand...
The answer is in the question, it's Koei Tecmo lol unless it's specifically made by KT for PC at first don't expect any enhancements like that.

There's also some confusion on if the Sigma games are PS3 or Vita, they keep saying it's the PS3 version with Vita content but... almost all the screenshots and footage outside of the most recent screenshots are of the Vita version. Either that or it's a weird mix of the 2 where it is the Vita versions with all that content but is using the models of PS3 for Hayabusa/enemies etc.
 
dg1995

dg1995

Member
I'm not setting my hopes up for the modders that much.

Since TN might make their games as mod unfriendly as possible.(And with NG 1 and 2 being made with an in house engine, I believe modding the game would be very hard.)
 
Fiend Busa

Fiend Busa

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Standard Donor
dg1995 said:
I'm not setting my hopes up for the modders that much.

Since TN might make their games as mod unfriendly as possible.(And with NG 1 and 2 being made with an in house engine, I believe modding the game would be very hard.)
Click to expand...

People already made mods for NG1 and NGRE with a jb console that goes beyond save editing same with asset ripping of the games.
 
Brute

Brute

Well-Known Member
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The part that kind of concerns me is that KT reportedly have the leaderboard system intact for all three games, and may try to dissuade modding/tampering in order to reinforce the fidelity of the online scoreboard.

Side note: but I also really hope to see certain QoL mods for Razor's Edge. In particular, I'd like to have an option that removes on-screen blood spatter and low-HP screen filter/pulsating effect. Those features always made it way more difficult to discern what was going on in an already chaotic and fast-paced game. I never really got into RE in the same way I did the first two, so I'd really like to give it an honest go this time around. That said, certain things like the stuff I just mentioned make me somewhat discouraged.
 
M

mishima2000

Member
Fiend Busa said:
Yeah, to each there own!

I'll most likely start off with NGS2 to beat all the team missions since team Ninja said they adjusted it for solo play. That'll be something fresh and exciting I'm looking forward. Remainder of my time after that will just be soloing all the Ninja Trials and if modding takes off, maybe a return to NGS2 again!

Probably won't touch NGS haha. Play 2004/NGB to death as a kid. I can't seen to enjoy playing NG1 much nowadays for some reason!

Tbh I'm most excited for the modding scene in PC!

@dg1995 that's not always the case. The PS4/X1 still have 5400rpm HDD drives unless a user manually updated it even then, SSD performance is limited on the old consoles.

The BC version on X1X has no loading performance increase and that runs direct on the HDD.

Unless TN optimizes NGS2 it might stay the same aside from the PS5/XbxSeries/PC with just how faster modern storage is nowadays.
Click to expand...
I just bought an asus rog with a 2080 graphics card and I will be playing it on pc as well. Do you think there will be a mod to bring back the online coop? I now there will be a blood patch and I hope they have a patch where they get rid of that stupid bow and arrow
 
Brute

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Having fancy PC features is great, but I wasn't really looking to run any of the games on absurd resolutions at 5000 FPS using a keyboard.

I'm perfectly willing to accept these limitations as opposed to certain others. One thing I just remembered is the Save issue in NGS2. Is the only way to create a true new game on PC going to require deleting your one and only main save file? Issues like that are what really have me anxious.
 
Sotherius

Sotherius

Well-Known Member
Honestly, i was hoping for at least the DOA 5 LR square with resolution, shadows and AA options. It seems not even resolution will be pickable.
At this point i'm getting on pc because it will be cheaper on the brazilian market, but until we get more info, getting on console will lead to a least frustrating experience.
 
UpSideDownGRUNT

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
Jesus christ... it's like Koei WANTS this collection to not sell? no keyboard support I understand these games were just not designed with that in mind but fucking hell there's zero graphics options at all? only 1080p 60 or 4K 60 if you have good gpu and 4K monitor... who the fuck is going to buy that? Glad I decided to get this collection on Xbox wow. was gonna double dip with PC but not anymore.
 
dg1995

dg1995

Member
Keyboard and mouse could work well for this game though.

It would make the camera much easier to control compared to using a controller.
 
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