DOA6 Story Discussion

[marussya]

Nah, it definitely wasn't Maria. I even have a couple of reasons why it's unlikely to be her:

1. The inhabitant's hair in the tank was far too long to be Maria's, reaching up to her back. In the various flashbacks, Maria's hair only reached to her neck at most. It looked more to be Kasumi's length if anything.

2. The hairstyle is not even close to looking like Maria's hair, even ignoring the length. The hair for Maria is more of a comb-back, while the hair of the entity in the tank looked more like Kasumi's hairstyle.

3. When showing it, the entity was not only overall colored very green a'la Alpha-152, but we even get a brief glimpse of Alpha-152's trademark aura.

4. The technician who was... eager to see her specifically mentioned he wanted to see her again, and somehow, I'm doubtful Donovan (who's pretty much the reason Maria and Fame Douglas were dead) would have wanted her brought back or allowed anyone under his employ to like Maria or even know of her. Of course, why NiCO would even bother to revive Maria at all especially under MIST's watch under that pretense is a mystery in itself.

I thought it was the same capsule, in these two scenes. The reason why Donovan wants to bring back Maria may be obvious - he wants her as woman but she chose Douglas (how much I want to see you again) I don't think that he wants to see alpha so much, because in that case it means that he has feelings to Kasumi lol

 

[otnesse]

I thought it was the same capsule, in these two scenes. The reason why Donovan wants to bring back Maria may be obvious - he wants her as woman but she chose Douglas (how much I want to see you again) I don't think that he wants to see alpha so much, because in that case it means that he has feelings to Kasumi lol

Somehow, I don't think he would have been the type to just spare Maria even if she hadn't taken the bullet for Helena (and let's not forget he tried to kill Helena to get rid of any potential competition. I don't think he's going to be particularly merciful to Maria). As far as feelings for Kasumi, well, he did have an odd fascination with cloning her, so there's that to take into account, and it seems off that he made Kasumi Alpha essentially have an Electra Complex for him.

Either way, that... thing doesn't even LOOK like Maria. This is what Maria looked like:

Her hair barely even reaches her shoulders, and even her concept art depicts her as having fairly short hair. The thing in the tank had hair descending down to her butt.

Plus, given that she was killed by a sniper rifle during a opera opening, don't you think she'd still be in the attire she had been wearing when she died instead of buck naked as if she had just been freshly cloned? For goodness sakes, cybernetics aside, Raidou was practically wearing the same attire he was wearing when he was killed by Kasumi and Ryu Hayabusa in the first tournament. Plus, I don't know about you, but I don't recall anyone else other than one of the Kasumi clones giving off that green Lifestream-like aura while in that vat.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I agree that we need a redesign of character in case if he would return. And we have two examples of it in DOA already. Nyotengu instead of deceased Bankotsubo and Honoka instead of Raidou (of course they both appeared in last two games, but it's obvious that it last game for Raidou, so Honoka will be kind of replacement). There also a female version of Donovan sorta (NiCO), some people wanted Victor to be playable and they decided to make it possible in some way. So why we can't have a similar decision for Genra. Maybe his biological daughter or son, don't sure about younger version, but his female version has more chances. I don't think that it will be hard for TN write some story for it. I don't want to deep in fanfiction, because even fan stories is better than canon, but we always face a cruel reality, where developers haven't enough creativity to make a good story

I'm pretty sure Bankotsubo's reason was because he just wasn't popular enough so they genderbent him to draw in the cash grab kek kek kek (I mean, Nyotengu was still good though).

His downfall was really just popularity and death plot though, but woo boy did he spark a potential good story in DOA2. Well......could of been a good story. Honoka would probably be Raidou's replacement, but that also hints on where the story is going from here, and well, it probably won't be pretty. Might even be cringe if the magical friendship adventure takes over the entire plot. If I wanted to watch wholesome anime, i'd watch it from a genre online.

I agree with learning from other fighters and following trends do make a game better, but it doesn’t in DOA’s case as of right now. In my opinion DOA should first find it’s identity back and the direction it wants to go into before actually taking notes from other fighters. Other fighters do it better because they have their identity set in stone and have a direction they want to go into and learn to get better while also not losing track of that direction.

Sweet Christmas, not this identity speech again. That's a ruse. A scapegoat. All this identity crisis comes from the stigma of the game rather than the story. It's merely talks of DOA being taken serious which is not even wrong. DOA has an identity but not just taken serious behind it, it's just not a super popular one to be worldwide media material obviously, it's really just the stigma that's holding it. You say DOA should come first but you are preventing it's growth by not experiencing other games in reference which is a priority on what to learn before starting to make your own < this always comes first so what kind of logic are you on? no seriously.

The goal is to grasp information and then use it as your own. DOA has been taking notes from other fighters since the day of it's birth, from it's system, 3D layers, mechanic similarities and so on, so it should "never" stop there, never (never has either). Killer Instinct has a bit of DOA element and that became a success because that's how they learn. All this "getting a direction for DOA to become it's own thing" is a joke when mostly every fighter came from something else. Guess where down punches come from? from other fighting games before it. Come now, DOA is not "that" special. It's certainly different, but yeah whatever.

Other fighters do it better because they have their identity set in stone and have a direction they want to go into and learn to get better while also not losing track of that direction.

Mostly false. Other fighters do it because that's how they generally do it along with having a central budget, schedule, and feedback. Even Ed Boon from MK stated that if it wasn't for fighting games, his team felt one MK game to the next would be the last game because they wouldn't know what to absorb from other games to stand out. DOA, has to to absorb information from other games, to stand out. Obviously meter in DOA sounds wonky, but that's an example of testing grounds since day one where if it doesn't go well, then you replace it, find the next thing out there, get ideas from it and scrap some stuff where it doesn't look too similar, and boom. You are done. You have witnessed what other fighting games have been doing since the beginning of time.

Popularity was the "result" from what they did, not the other way around.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Genra is dead, though it does have a bit of plot holes. It's still unknown if the mask was a key to figuring out something else entirely, or a method of reincarnating Genra's spirit.

That's not really a plot hole. A plot hole is a jump in logic between two story points. An irrelevant story point not explained or expressed is not a plot hole.

I'm pretty sure Bankotsubo's reason was because he just wasn't popular enough so they genderbent him to draw in the cash grab kek kek kek (I mean, Nyotengu was still good though).

I mean, death is the main reason he wasn't brought back. So Team NINJA took the liberty to make a female tengu and print money. Not like his death was worthless, I mean Nyo basically comes to Earth with the intention to meet the legend who killed Bankotsubo.

 

[otnesse]

I'm pretty sure Bankotsubo's reason was because he just wasn't popular enough so they genderbent him to draw in the cash grab kek kek kek (I mean, Nyotengu was still good though).

His downfall was really just popularity and death plot though, but woo boy did he spark a potential good story in DOA2. Well......could of been a good story. Honoka would probably be Raidou's replacement, but that also hints on where the story is going from here, and well, it probably won't be pretty. Might even be cringe if the magical friendship adventure takes over the entire plot. If I wanted to watch wholesome anime, i'd watch it from a genre online.



Sweet Christmas, not this identity speech again. That's a ruse. A scapegoat. All this identity crisis comes from the stigma of the game rather than the story. It's merely talks of DOA being taken serious which is not even wrong. DOA has an identity but not just taken serious behind it, it's just not a super popular one to be worldwide media material obviously, it's really just the stigma that's holding it. You say DOA should come first but you are preventing it's growth by not experiencing other games in reference which is a priority on what to learn before starting to make your own < this always comes first so what kind of logic are you on? no seriously.

The goal is to grasp information and then use it as your own. DOA has been taking notes from other fighters since the day of it's birth, from it's system, 3D layers, mechanic similarities and so on, so it should "never" stop there, never (never has either). Killer Instinct has a bit of DOA element and that became a success because that's how they learn. All this "getting a direction for DOA to become it's own thing" is a joke when mostly every fighter came from something else. Guess where down punches come from? from other fighting games before it. Come now, DOA is not "that" special. It's certainly different, but yeah whatever.



Mostly false. Other fighters do it because that's how they generally do it along with having a central budget, schedule, and feedback. Even Ed Boon from MK stated that if it wasn't for fighting games, his team felt one MK game to the next would be the last game because they wouldn't know what to absorb from other games to stand out. DOA, has to to absorb information from other games, to stand out. Obviously meter in DOA sounds wonky, but that's an example of testing grounds since day one where if it doesn't go well, then you replace it, find the next thing out there, get ideas from it and scrap some stuff where it doesn't look too similar, and boom. You are done. You have witnessed what other fighting games have been doing since the beginning of time.

Popularity was the "result" from what they did, not the other way around.

To be fair, DOA6 did try to do exactly what you suggested about trying to be taken seriously, and that was such an absolute disaster that even DOA4 during its stint in the tournaments had far better chances at actually BECOMING a tournament-based fighter than DOA6 did.

Besides, believe it or not, DOA actually was referenced in some media. I definitely recall The Boondocks actually referencing Dead or Alive 4 at one point (I think it was the arc where Riley, under the impression that he was threatening Santa Claus, was unknowingly threatening his grandpa, and the grandpa decided to "gift" his planned Christmas Gift of an Xbox 360 to himself instead of to Riley as punishment, offhandedly mentioning Dead or Alive 4 as he was walking way).

 

[DestructionBomb]

That's not really a plot hole. A plot hole is a jump in logic between two story points. An irrelevant story point not explained or expressed is not a plot hole.

It's literally no different than one, there's an actual "hole" in there considering how long that's still unexplained since it's a literal jump to another from it's conclusion. It's rather inconsistent, contradicts logic or previously established events in the story (or could be something of an event that's going to be in play soon, or worse, an empty mask)

Though if we are taking it from the actual term, would make sense. Not sure how that's hardly any different with current timeline of the game, isn't DOA full of plot holes in general? heck even Street Fighter and Tekken has plot holes and I find those games to have more of it.

 

[otnesse]

It's literally no different than one, there's an actual "hole" in there considering how long that's still unexplained since it's a literal jump to another from it's conclusion. It's rather inconsistent, contradicts logic or previously established events in the story (or could be something of an event that's going to be in play soon, or worse, an empty mask)

Though if we are taking it from the actual term, would make sense. Not sure how that's hardly any different with current timeline of the game, isn't DOA full of plot holes in general? heck even Street Fighter and Tekken has plot holes and I find those games to have more of it.

Eh, having followed the storyline, I'd probably say it's actually pretty bereft of plotholes barring DOA6 (the whole Honoka and Marie Rose meet each other for the first time despite DOA5LR and DOAXVV indicating they're long-time BFFs thing) and possibly DOA5 (depending on how you go by the False Kasumi thing). Maybe Donovan's usage of Genra's face mask if we're to be exceedingly generous. I've actually seen a lot more plotholes in Metal Gear than I did in Dead or Alive, like, I don't know, the whole Truth Ending for MGSV which destroyed whatever continuity was left in the franchise, or most of the stuff in Metal Gear Solid 2 (heck, the S3 Plan quite frankly didn't make much sense as it is), or even Liquid trying to manipulate Snake into using the card keys while disguised as Miller despite literally trying to kill him with a Hind earlier. Heck, Quiet even remaining... well, quiet to such an extent that she can't even write DOWN what Skull Face planned for her even AFTER his demise pretty much not having her being obligated to remain quiet is such a big plot hole it makes the whole "Ariel should have written down what occurred" thing in The Little Mermaid seem like nothing by comparison (well, personally, I didn't think the Ariel thing was that big of a plot hole, but still...), especially when the vocal cord parasites aren't likely to be activated via handwriting (and her being a top assassin of Skull Face would make it exceedingly unlikely that she was illiterate or couldn't write).

 

[Onryoki]

You say DOA should come first but you are preventing it's growth by not experiencing other games in reference which is a priority on what to learn before starting to make your own < this always comes first so what kind of logic are you on? no seriously.

Umm... I play other fighters lol, just because I’m mostly on DOA doesn’t mean I don’t play other fighters. I play Tekken and MK. I barely play them because my mains aren’t in and the the cast doesn’t interest me as much as I want to.

Sweet Christmas, not this identity speech again. That's a ruse. A scapegoat. All this identity crisis comes from the stigma of the game rather than the story. It's merely talks of DOA being taken serious which is not even wrong. DOA has an identity but not just taken serious behind it, it's just not a super popular one to be worldwide media material obviously, it's really just the stigma that's holding it.

The goal is to grasp information and then use it as your own. DOA has been taking notes from other fighters since the day of it's birth, from it's system, 3D layers, mechanic similarities and so on, so it should "never" stop there, never (never has either). Killer Instinct has a bit of DOA element and that became a success because that's how they learn. All this "getting a direction for DOA to become it's own thing" is a joke when mostly every fighter came from something else. Guess where down punches come from? from other fighting games before it. Come now, DOA is not "that" special. It's certainly different, but yeah whatever.

To me DOA pretty much lost its identity after 4. The overall design became lazier for this game and it feels like they’re not even putting time, energy, effort and creativity into this game no more.

I know DOA has taken notes from other fighters, every fighter does. I just meant it in a way with the stupid meter. They don’t constantly have to add stupid mechanics just for the sake of trying something new. Sometimes they should stick to what they already heave. I know it’s TN trying something new, and I commend them for doing it, but they shouldn’t constantly try something new. DOA constantly changing a lot between every instalment is pretty annoying. It’s interesting learning something familiar all over again, but it’s also annoying because you have to learn all over again.

 

[marussya]

To make situation worse they cut 30 scenes. What was in that scenes so they decided to delete it? I think even these episodes can save the whole situation with story in 6. It can reach even an hour in length while 5 had 90 mins of cutscenes. I don't think it were stories from trivia anyway

 

[otnesse]

To make situation worse they cut 30 scenes. What was in that scenes so they decided to delete it? I think even these episodes can save the whole situation with story in 6. It can reach even an hour in length while 5 had 90 mins of cutscenes. I don't think it were stories from trivia anyway

Who knows, maybe it dealt with the trivia. I do find it especially odd that the trivia had Irene Lew of all people doing something as important as getting Ryu and Kasumi over to MIST's labs, especially when she otherwise isn't even ALLUDED to in the game.

 

[Onryoki]

Who knows, maybe it dealt with the trivia. I do find it especially odd that the trivia had Irene Lew of all people doing something as important as getting Ryu and Kasumi over to MIST's labs, especially when she otherwise isn't even ALLUDED to in the game.

Important? All that hoe is known for is flying a damn helicopter lmao

 

[otnesse]

Important? All that hoe is known for is flying a damn helicopter lmao

Well, they had to get to MIST Labs somehow.

 

[deathofaninja]

That's not how things work. I asked you to explain and you decided to give me straws like some angsty child. I don't follow your blind optimism because it's literally the only game you play, you have to try multiple things to figure out what's good about DOA and what's the issue about it from the inside and compare it to the pros and cons from other FGs to ensure that we don't acquire those cons. You play nothing else dictating whether or not I should appreciate the story. Your statement has zero impact as well as your contribution to this matter.

Why is SC's current story better than DOA? I can't believe this, let me research and confirm this...........oh, that's why. Even though it's a Namco product but it all makes sense. Now I see why people believe it so. Yeah, I suppose DOA could use something like this even if it's a small portion.

Well whaddya know! information and research! something that you've been doing on the front page but nothing else!



No, you haven't. If it's the generic typical blind optimism then it's not a good excuse to determine on what's a good story or not. What exactly have you explained over the past years regarding story? Rachel? literally your contribution is an immense sheer of platform bias and writing news like today's obvious weather, which is practically not even towards story.

Again, you simple newsman. Blind optimism is the only thing you certainly contributed currently. I've supported a lot longer than you have ever done before you was the newsman. Sit down.



You are missing the point. This topic / conversation with your quoting is not something that'd be useful so I deemed as the conversation to be over regarding this conversation topic (not the actual page topic itself you damn pleb) because it's very likely to be typical and leads to nothing but indoctrinated speeches and blind optimism.

For Pete's sake you liked the DOA movie. People could find 1029 different ways to improve a live action film and then you'd have that one dude in the background like "w-well, I liked it! so I think it's ok and should stay the same! and everyone else should forcefully agree it too!" why? because as long as it caters to you, people should accept it how it is? life isn't all sunshine. There's always constructive criticism which I minimized it a bit to bolster loop holes and eliminating factors, my version to it is to be blunt to the situation because clone stories are outdated (it actually is). Most fighters have left it because of that reason alone and some are trying to move past that level, DOA unfortunately has not because the writers simply don't give a damn whether the story is good or not.



No I haven't. That's your typical blind optimism making you feel like you are the edgy supreme to the topic at hand lol. I gave my points and provided the placement that the clone stories "are" outdated. Even developers from other games have stated this because there are players that play nothing but story so you can't exactly throw them under the bus. I just so happened to also be good at the game to not care on whether the story turns out good or not, but for the casual players who have no interest in the gameplay format, you have to help them in some fashion. But obviously you'd be the last resort to that matter when all hope is lost. I'm literally having a chat with Bladez reading this and we are rolling.



I have provided portions of the years for story improvement, your sad excuse of eliminating this attempt is bottom tier, nice try though.

Wrestling entertainment is currently scripted including the plot of the babyface and the heel so it could very well be fake (not entirely), some wrestling actions you take risks while still be safe in the long run (table slams, cage jumps, weapons, sharp objects etc). However did you know that actual wrestling moves such as a Power Bomb can actually do spine damage? you should know this, but yeah it's entertainment. If it makes people happy good. If it doesn't, they'll try their best to ensure entertainment improves for their love of wrestling.

Will I go out my way to tell people around that wrestling is fake? no, but if someone were to ask me a serious question about it and is really really curious, I'd say sure but I'd say it in a way to keep them watching since it's a legitimate sport.

I've been playing DOA since it started, and I've been writing about it since I was 14 (definitely longer than you). You act like you know everything and that's the sad thing about you. Truth is, I've proved you wrong before, caught you saying so many odd things that I can't keep up with it anymore. Your "improvements" to the story are ones that I definitely disagree with and I have enjoyed the story.

You think I don't play other games? Maybe I should send you pictures of my game collection... when I had the time I played every fighting game there was so yeah I don't like Tekken because I've played Tekken and determined it's bad.

The sad thing is we have had this argument before... likely in this thread. I explained all of my reasons before you just don't listen... and because of your brain-dead memes and you think you are good I guess that means that you don't have to listen to other people.

Your "improvements" are subjective, the original story isn't going to change... and everyone with half a brain knows that DOA5 + DOA6 story have nothing on the original Itagaki narrative. I will just assume that your hate for Itagaki is coming into play with that comment.

If you really want me to do this again I will, but come on. Just give it a rest. You're not cool because you piss on the story.... k? And for somebody that brings up research, you don't do a lot of it clearly. I don't have anything to prove to you and never will.

Let me know exactly what you want me to explain again and I will do it. I don't think anything is wrong with the cloning story so I will stamp that out. Makes perfect sense for a fighting game.

 

[Matt Ponton]

It's literally no different than one, there's an actual "hole" in there considering how long that's still unexplained since it's a literal jump to another from it's conclusion.

No, you're using it figuratively.

For the sake of the plot, Donovan retrieved Genra's mask, and we've been shown that at least he believes the mask to hold some supernatural properties. Nothing else has been said about it. That doesn't make it a plot hole.

An example of a fictitious plot hole would be Donovan, or any character, having the mask whenever it is convenient without actually retrieving it. You could possibly argue it's a plot hole in how he got the mask exactly, but since there has not been any plot lines made into him having the goal of obtaining it, struggling to obtain it, and obtaining it, then there's no hole in the logic if the story starts with him obtaining it and no one else having their character development or narrative negatively affected by him obtaining it.

*shrug*

But the term plot hole is often thrown around too much in my honest opinion. Typically incorrectly applied to questions starting with "But why didn't s/he just...".

But i'm going in a tangent. Point is, stuff can happen off camera or off page and not be a plot hole. Is it shitty writing? Sure. But as long as it doesn't negatively affect the character development and narrative of any party without any jump in character logic, it isn't a plot hole. Technically speaking.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Do you have a picture of that tank in DOA6 (what is supposedly Maria)? I thought it was empty. No clue what you are talking about.

 

[otnesse]

Do you have a picture of that tank in DOA6 (what is supposedly Maria)? I thought it was empty. No clue what you are talking about.

Here you go:

And here's the youtube video timestamped to that scene:

Now, compare the individual in the tank to the two screenshots from DOA2U and DOA4 regarding Maria, and they don't even look anything alike. In fact, if anything, she looks more like Kasumi (to say little about how she's buck naked in the tank, and if Raidou's of any indication, Maria would probably have been wearing the clothes she died in). And don't get me started on the green stuff she's surrounded by, which is a dead ringer to these artworks of Alpha-152 and Phase 4.

 

[Onryoki]

I've been playing DOA since it started, and I've been writing about it since I was 14 (definitely longer than you). You act like you know everything and that's the sad thing about you. Truth is, I've proved you wrong before, caught you saying so many odd things that I can't keep up with it anymore. Your "improvements" to the story are ones that I definitely disagree with and I have enjoyed the story.

You think I don't play other games? Maybe I should send you pictures of my game collection... when I had the time I played every fighting game there was so yeah I don't like Tekken because I've played Tekken and determined it's bad.

The sad thing is we have had this argument before... likely in this thread. I explained all of my reasons before you just don't listen... and because of your brain-dead memes and you think you are good I guess that means that you don't have to listen to other people.

Your "improvements" are subjective, the original story isn't going to change... and everyone with half a brain knows that DOA5 + DOA6 story have nothing on the original Itagaki narrative. I will just assume that your hate for Itagaki is coming into play with that comment.

If you really want me to do this again I will, but come on. Just give it a rest. You're not cool because you piss on the story.... k? And for somebody that brings up research, you don't do a lot of it clearly. I don't have anything to prove to you and never will.

Let me know exactly what you want me to explain again and I will do it. I don't think anything is wrong with the cloning story so I will stamp that out. Makes perfect sense for a fighting game.

He wants you to explain why DOA’s “abysmal” plot is better than some of the other stories people wrote.

I personally didn’t enjoy the story of 6 because it felt more like a compilation of random clips than a consistent story.

 

[otnesse]

He wants you to explain why DOA’s “abysmal” plot is better than some of the other stories people wrote.

I personally didn’t enjoy the story of 6 because it felt more like a compilation of random clips than a consistent story.

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with DOA6's story either, and I got into DOA precisely because of its story and messages.

 

[Tyaren]

I knew the story was going to be trivial, boring and it would more often than not make no sense. It's written like bad fanfiction and I was not disappointed.
The one thing that did disappoint me however, and in hindsight I must've been crazy when I thought they would get this right: Marie Rose's characterization.
I hoped they'd make her "devilish" (what she was characterized when she was first revealed) and a little badass. You know, deceiving cute and innocent looks, but actually a capable, vicious fighter. It would have partly redeemed her shameless lolicon pandering character design and given some credence to her being a very young looking adult woman. But, nope, she is exactly what she looks and acts like: a little, whiny girl. That scene of her getting punched unconscious by Bayman and being carried away was so awful. She should've kicked his ass.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I never cared for the storyline itself, but more about characterization. The way Helena "acted" since DOA2, with drama and attitude is what I enjoy.

But I would be curious to see TN releasing these 30+ cut scenes from story mode. Please make it happen.