Lets talk about redesigns

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KasumiLover

SovereignKnight_
Premium Donor
So now we go from breast jiggle to ass jiggle? It kinda seems unrealistic for a fighting game. I don’t get why everything has to be jiggly, if we got ass and breast jiggle I wonder what’s next, foot jiggle for the casual foot fetish lover?
DOA is fine the way it is, it honestly do not need any more jiggle.
Didn't say DOA had to have it, and not really tbh, ass always moves no matter what, its really not unrealistic since it happens to everyone. The notion that everything has to be jiggle and "foot jiggle"(which idk where that came from...) however are unrealistic tho xD

And the people still annoyed are about the breast jiggle are really strange. One guy on that YT video was STILL upset because he didn't like the idea of clothes restraining the movement even tho DOA5 did that same thing....
 

JJdude

Well-Known Member
If most of you guys who don't care for Fanservice want DOA6 to be "taken more seriously" then the obvious option is to have a western version of the latest Xtreme series. Or a new installment.That way, both sides would be mostly happy.
 

KasumiLover

SovereignKnight_
Premium Donor
If most of you guys who don't care for Fanservice want DOA6 to be "taken more seriously" then the obvious option is to have a western version of the latest Xtreme series. Or a new installment.That way, both sides would be mostly happy.
That would just make things worse tho, DOA6 would not be taken seriously if TN also announced alongside DOA6 that they were going to localize the X3 game, plus the complainers want that sex appeal in the main fighting series xD
 

JJdude

Well-Known Member
That would just make things worse tho, DOA6 would not be taken seriously if TN also announced alongside DOA6 that they were going to localize the X3 game, plus the complainers want that sex appeal in the main fighting series xD
No no no, later on AFTER DOA6 has been released.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
This. People in the Dualshockers article outright stated "They must have seen the pre-order numbers" COMPLETELY WITHOUT IRONY and then later on stated "With the interest of the game at an all time low"...

Yeah sure, this is exactly what I believed and knew from the start: These people aren't fans, they don't care about actually getting what they want. They just want to be proven right and have something irrevocably fail simply because it did it the wrong way. It's amazing how all you have to do is apply a different coat of paint and you see these fools as exactly what they are: Anti-SJW's.

Just as bad as their regular counterpart, but have no clue on the sheer irony of their situation.
How does that work? " pre-order numbers"??? DOA6 doesn't have pre-orders at all in any shape or form yet.

Also interest in DOA hasn't been this high in years.
 

KasumiLover

SovereignKnight_
Premium Donor
No no no, later on AFTER DOA6 has been released.
Even still I don't think that would be a good idea xD everyone right now is looking for any reason not to like DOA6, and if they drop some spin off X3 game and localize it then that will be the perfect opportunity for people to talk smack about it since an Xtreme beach game would overshadow what DOA6 has going on right now.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
No no no, later on AFTER DOA6 has been released.

That would still fuck up it's reputation because Westerners are just that petty.
People who already don't play the game but can't be seen as being shitty will just blame the sexiness over and over again.
Those who don't like cheesecake being constantly thrown in their face just wouldn't buy the game and still make fun of it.

If anything, DOA6 should show what they was planning on doing since E3 and bring the fanservice to the level that they want to... and just keep going from that point on, add the things that others have asked for like more details on the characters' bodies(especially muscle tone for some of the women like Tina and Rachel) and spruce up the characters further. I already expect fanservice to come back in droves with the DLC... what I HOPE FOR is that there is equal amounts of variety and we get no BS Tecmo Koei nonsense and they throw nothing but fanservice at us constantly.

How does that work? " pre-order numbers"??? DOA6 doesn't have pre-orders at all in any shape or form yet.

Also interest in DOA hasn't been this high in years.

What do you think the answer is? These people don't know games, hell, they even barely know game development, if they barely know at all. Let me tell you something:
People love using that "American Superhero Comics" and taking after "SJW Marvel" completely wrong because they end up showing a picture of Carol Danvers as Ms. Marvel and then her as Captain Marvel and say that's why "SJW Marvel" is failing...

ANYONE who has even GLANCED at Comics would know the main problem with Marvel isn't even close to "They aren't doing fanservice stuff anymore" and it's more of "Why the hell is Carol being pushed so hard? Why is she literally looking like a male in certain artists' drawings? Why is she always right even when she's wrong(See Civil War 2)?" ON TOP OF the fact that you have alot of new "diverse characters"(LITERALLY ONE NOTE AND MADE FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE TO PANDER) taking the place of old heroes and practically making terrible, terrible stories, barely developing them as characters and constantly slamming readers and longtime fans to the point of absolutely low purchases of all time for Marvel.

When Shimbori simply wants to copy the "style" of the characters... which is a good point since even Capcom made Captain Marvel look actually like a female whose still in charge in MvC:I. Apparently that obvious meaning is completely lost to certain people.
 

Hayabusiness

Well-Known Member
Do those crappy Marvel comics even get released in Japan? Especially considering US *comics* are a niche over these.

I think Japan and TN probably looked at Avengers *movies*, Wonder Woman, and other popular super hero action flicks from Hollywood that are so in vogue recently and took them as reference, not the art of the comic books... And it's pretty clear IMO.
But the anti-SJWs can't push their agenda as much without bringing in those "progressive" Marvel comics...
 

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
If most of you guys who don't care for Fanservice want DOA6 to be "taken more seriously" then the obvious option is to have a western version of the latest Xtreme series. Or a new installment.That way, both sides would be mostly happy.
I don’t see the correlation between X3 to be released in the west and DOA6.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
Do those crappy Marvel comics even get released in Japan? Especially considering US *comics* are a niche over these.

I think Japan and TN probably looked at Avengers *movies*, Wonder Woman, and other popular super hero action flicks from Hollywood that are so in vogue recently and took them as reference, not the art of the comic books... And it's pretty clear IMO.
But the anti-SJWs can't push their agenda as much without bringing in those "progressive" Marvel comics...

Marvel is surprisingly popular over there... but I highly doubt the comics themselves are doing anything since, you know, Japan and Asian countries in general are super anti-woke(China is so unwoke that they have created a word specifically for white liberals that are practically SJWs.... Baizuo).

So they most definitely appreciate the heroes... and Star Wars... until Disney capsized both and shat on the remains.
 

Kasumi-Phase-X

Well-Known Member
Again, catering to a specific niche never does a company any good, they actually want to EXPAND. Even Capcom tried this with SFV and the reason that failed was due to their rush to claim the E-Sports fame well before making sure their game is complete.
No one or anyone has stated that they are removing your fanservice, all they said was it was going to take a backseat to the game at large, a reaction that had an EQUAL IF NOT GREATER amount of people for it than against it. No one have any issues with the costumes and the bikinis... except for the sheer volume with NO VARIETY. I've seen more people get tired of being deluged by the same fetish outfits even in games outside of DOA like SFV, the issue is simply the fact that they focused on the fanservice for DOA5, especially for Last Round to the detriment of the fighting engine(no seriously, when your vast amount of marketing is SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SOFT ENGINE AND THE BREAST BOUNCE, you done fucked up). Don't tell me that's how they should pander for DOA, that's freaking stupid.

And I say that as a person who likes cheesecake, there's a such thing as too much... and DOA5 had TOO MUCH CHEESECAKE, thus it loses it's substance, flavor and became stale.

I'm not just talking about catering to just a specific niche, but the niche that has the potential of being profitable, and to have a more focus direction rather than trying to appeal to everyone who don't like same things which winds up not making everyone happy or being the worst side of being mainstream. Capcom wanted to expand their demographic for SFV, but they spend their time talking about wanting to appeal to casuals, but not offering the content casuals wanted (not at launch) which they only wind up appeal to the FGC. During SFV launch they released in time for Capcom Pro Tours.

I've been following DOA6 since its first trailer and the talks about less sexualized approach, so I'm more familiar with the situation. I recommend checking taking a look at a previous comment I posted at Page 55 Comment 1,099 since I mention about the feedback which I got from gameinformer and when I confronted Shimbori himself at EVO mainly to learn more about how can you give feedback when it comes to costumes. Even if fanservice isn't removed, and isn't in the main focus they should at least offer the same content/options of what DOA5LR previously had which is My main concern maybe with feedback I could get the content I want.

The focus on fanservice was throughout the games lifespan, since DOA5 had done what DOA6 is currently doing right now.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...ayashi_on_more_realistic_respectful_games.php

Which they also gotten backlash for: https://gamasutra.com/view/news/178358/Team_Ninja_learns_to_fear_its_fans.php#.UGc1BPl24hV

Focus on fanservice was due to this:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...oa5-costumes-they-ended-buying-bathing-suits/

Whoever gave DOA5 that lifespan of DLC along with 7 Season Pass, are the ones that should be prioritized by just offer what DOA5 previously had just with new costumes & new features.

DOA honestly do not need over the top sexual costumes it’s a fighting game, I get the idea that people forget that it is a fighting game and not a softcore porn game for the regular masochists and BDSM lovers. The girls can be sexy without it being over the top.

Being a fighting game excuses nothing, the only purpose DOA being a fighting game is knowing what the main series is. All fighting games are is just a genre the same as Shooting, RPG, Puzzle, Adventure etc.

Even if DOA is a fighting game, they still offer girls in revealing outfits and bikinis from the unlockable costumes here are samples:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ane_C10.png/revision/latest?cb=20110813164331

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net..._C8_Sat.png/revision/latest?cb=20140616211327

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...Tina_C8.png/revision/latest?cb=20110813204336

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...DOAUC12.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101011054940

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...DOAUC10.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101011053649

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...eDOA4C4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101004051944

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...OA4Cos3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101004051946

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...aDOA4C5.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101004052852

DOA5 DLC speaks volumes than words itself.

PS. I never said that girls can't be sexy without being over the top. All DOA need to do is offer both styles costumes.

If most of you guys who don't care for Fanservice want DOA6 to be "taken more seriously" then the obvious option is to have a western version of the latest Xtreme series. Or a new installment.That way, both sides would be mostly happy.

I think making a new installment for the group that doesn't care about fanservice to the point of not giving DOA a chance and taking a serious approach would be a better move on Shimbori's part. DOA already had its chance with DOA5, and if DOAX was to have a sequel they wouldn't give DOA chance for that.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
I'm not just talking about catering to just a specific niche, but the niche that has the potential of being profitable, and to have a more focus direction rather than trying to appeal to everyone who don't like same things which winds up not making everyone happy or being the worst side of being mainstream. Capcom wanted to expand their demographic for SFV, but they spend their time talking about wanting to appeal to casuals, but not offering the content casuals wanted (not at launch) which they only wind up appeal to the FGC. During SFV launch they released in time for Capcom Pro Tours.

Again, you missed the point of why SFV failed and trying to conflate it to DOA6's problems is the epitome of missing the point even further.
SFV's problems is not talking about appealing to casuals or offering the content to casuals, it's the sheer epitome of simply putting their foot in their own mouth CONSTANTLY, even moreso than people who love to say that Shimbori has done the same thing when it hasn't even reached that level.

SFV only TALKED about appealing to the casuals, but they completely botched it on a multitude of levels:
- Commercials primarily focused on the FGC and Tourneys and Rising Up to be in those tournies, most things casuals don't give a damn about.
- The game's betas not mattering at all when the game was released, hell, it was even WORSE than the some of the Betas in comparison
- The constant censoring which has never been fixed for that sweet ESPN money(R.Mika's Critical Art is a complete mess and still is)
- Not only the loss of the regular modes SFIV had, but also the sheer EASINESS of the Prologues to the point a BABY can beat them but then you had the absolutely absurdly stupid Survival Mode that they only fixed RECENTLY.
- And that's on top of the sheer promises that was made that went unfulfilled for 2 YEARS on top of the fact that Capcom Japan kept blaming Capcom USA for their constant screwups despite Capcom USA barely having anything to do with the creation of the game.

The issue of SFV is not one or two small things, but the sheer culmination of multiple fuckups that basically insured that SFV would never be able to ride on the coat tails of SFIV in any capacity.

I've been following DOA6 since its first trailer and the talks about less sexualized approach, so I'm more familiar with the situation. I recommend checking taking a look at a previous comment I posted at Page 55 Comment 1,099 since I mention about the feedback which I got from gameinformer and when I confronted Shimbori himself at EVO mainly to learn more about how can you give feedback when it comes to costumes. Even if fanservice isn't removed, and isn't in the main focus they should at least offer the same content/options of what DOA5LR previously had which is My main concern maybe with feedback I could get the content I want.

Except again, people will mock DOA for having a breast slider despite the fact that people would also want it to not be massive waves of jiggles in their face(clearly showing they don't give a damn, they just want to mock... which can get others to not buy the game because of said mocking) as well as the absurd number of fetish costume DLC, gravure DLC as if this is DOAX and so on. Most of these options shouldn't be in a fighting game to begin with, especially if people are just going to cry over their inclusion because "It leaves bad first impressions".
Hell, DOA never even really had a Breast Physics slider UNTIL DOA5(As Matt pointed out that DOA2's age slider didn't mean a damn thing).

The focus on fanservice was throughout the games lifespan, since DOA5 had done what DOA6 is currently doing right now.

DOA5's situation is massively different than DOA6, something I also equally fought FOR. DOA4 nor any of the other DOA games had obvious fanservice so focusing away from that really could have came off as just another generic fighter. This did not help at all when all of the stages shown, the music and even the backgrounds DID IN FACT make it seem like it was any other fighter. That's why there was backlash on DOA5, DOA6 is on a completely different boat and judging by the Ghost Ship stage, I would say that they know what our problems was with DOA5 and making sure to add stage variety.

Whoever gave DOA5 that lifespan of DLC along with 7 Season Pass, are the ones that should be prioritized by just offer what DOA5 previously had just with new costumes & new features.

And in business, saying that would get you laughed at. The point of all business is to expand to make more money. Those who bought the DLC to that length can either be stated to be long time fans or just people who huge wallets. The whole point is to further expand to get more people interested into playing your game. How you think Mortal Kombat is such a juggernaut now and days? It's not just because of their blood and gore, I can absolutely tell you that despite how many people want to use it.
 

Kasumi-Phase-X

Well-Known Member
Again, you missed the point of why SFV failed and trying to conflate it to DOA6's problems is the epitome of missing the point even further.
SFV's problems is not talking about appealing to casuals or offering the content to casuals, it's the sheer epitome of simply putting their foot in their own mouth CONSTANTLY, even moreso than people who love to say that Shimbori has done the same thing when it hasn't even reached that level.

SFV only TALKED about appealing to the casuals, but they completely botched it on a multitude of levels:
- Commercials primarily focused on the FGC and Tourneys and Rising Up to be in those tournies, most things casuals don't give a damn about.
- The game's betas not mattering at all when the game was released, hell, it was even WORSE than the some of the Betas in comparison
- The constant censoring which has never been fixed for that sweet ESPN money(R.Mika's Critical Art is a complete mess and still is)
- Not only the loss of the regular modes SFIV had, but also the sheer EASINESS of the Prologues to the point a BABY can beat them but then you had the absolutely absurdly stupid Survival Mode that they only fixed RECENTLY.
- And that's on top of the sheer promises that was made that went unfulfilled for 2 YEARS on top of the fact that Capcom Japan kept blaming Capcom USA for their constant screwups despite Capcom USA barely having anything to do with the creation of the game.

The issue of SFV is not one or two small things, but the sheer culmination of multiple fuckups that basically insured that SFV would never be able to ride on the coat tails of SFIV in any capacity.

I'm not trying to conflate with DOA6 problems with why SFV failed, besides SFV had no business being part of the discussion other than being an example on how you shouldn't focus on certain thing so much you release bad products. I'm only talking about just having a focus on a demographic with a certain taste that has the chances at being successful which you'll still need a game that people will enjoy, like who would like a certain game with certain appeal. All the problems you've mentioned from SFV is something I can 100% agree with you, I don't want to get off subject.

Except again, people will mock DOA for having a breast slider despite the fact that people would also want it to not be massive waves of jiggles in their face(clearly showing they don't give a damn, they just want to mock... which can get others to not buy the game because of said mocking) as well as the absurd number of fetish costume DLC, gravure DLC as if this is DOAX and so on. Most of these options shouldn't be in a fighting game to begin with, especially if people are just going to cry over their inclusion because "It leaves bad first impressions".
Hell, DOA never even really had a Breast Physics slider UNTIL DOA5(As Matt pointed out that DOA2's age slider didn't mean a damn thing).

DOA5's situation is massively different than DOA6, something I also equally fought FOR. DOA4 nor any of the other DOA games had obvious fanservice so focusing away from that really could have came off as just another generic fighter. This did not help at all when all of the stages shown, the music and even the backgrounds DID IN FACT make it seem like it was any other fighter. That's why there was backlash on DOA5, DOA6 is on a completely different boat and judging by the Ghost Ship stage, I would say that they know what our problems was with DOA5 and making sure to add stage variety.

And in business, saying that would get you laughed at. The point of all business is to expand to make more money. Those who bought the DLC to that length can either be stated to be long time fans or just people who huge wallets. The whole point is to further expand to get more people interested into playing your game. How you think Mortal Kombat is such a juggernaut now and days? It's not just because of their blood and gore, I can absolutely tell you that despite how many people want to use it.

The people who would mock DOA for its breast slider are people not worth listening to. People who don't want massive waves of jiggles, fetish costume DLC, and gravure DLC can just set it to Neutral or Off (Breast Physics) and just not buy that DLC only get the ones they prefer. These problems have such an easy fix for a franchise like DOA, unless they don't want the content to exist at all.

Whats with people holding fighting games in a certain standard, that having any forms of sex appeal is something that doesn't belong in the genre? Fighting games is just a genre, and should include any options they want. I know DOA had optional bouncing breast since the first game, and DOA2 Ultimate had Breast Physics behave differently depending on the ages set.

Even if the situations that DOA5 & DOA6 go through are different, what DOA6 is currently doing with fanservice (which will still be there) is almost no different on what DOA5 tried to do during its development like having a more serious approach and certain things being toned down. The stuff you mention about stages, music, and backgrounds that is a mandatory job even if DOA5 didn't push fanservice hard for DLC. DOA6 could not tone down anything, but also improve the mandatory stuff to make it better.

Even if you were expand to get more people interest, you should still offer the same content from the previous game just so everyone could be happy in getting another DOA game. Its fine to getting more people into a game, but its another story if you change certain content just to cater to the ones who would've never given the brand a chance due to content they don't like themselves. For brands like Mortal Kombat being a juggernaut, did MK ever had to tone down blood and gore just so even more people can enjoy MK when its trying to appeal to people that were turned off by its over top gore like MK9-MKX?
 

Sotherius

Well-Known Member
@Kasumi-Phase-X you do need to realize that DOA5LR came to levels of fanservice that weren't present in the main series anymore, and not only hurt the external view of the game, but also did less for its characters. DOA is sexy, i love sexy, everyone loves sexy, but there is a thing as too much, and i'm glad Team Ninja is going away from that direction, right now DOA seems to be aiming for the level of fanservice present in doa 1 ~ doa 5 vanilla, which is honestly better than what we got on DOA5 Ultimate foward, and now on DOA xtreme 3. This level of fanservice doesn't provide anything good to the game, it doesn't bring players that actually play the game, it doesn't help grow out a fighting game scene, it doesn't make the game play better.

Yes, i don't want that kind of content to be even optional, microbikinis that only cover strategic parts, OMG breast physics (and don't come up with "this is since the ps1 era", it was that way because they had no tech to make it better).
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
@Kasumi-Phase-X you do need to realize that DOA5LR came to levels of fanservice that weren't present in the main series anymore, and not only hurt the external view of the game, but also did less for its characters. DOA is sexy, i love sexy, everyone loves sexy, but there is a thing as too much, and i'm glad Team Ninja is going away from that direction, right now DOA seems to be aiming for the level of fanservice present in doa 1 ~ doa 5 vanilla, which is honestly better than what we got on DOA5 Ultimate foward, and now on DOA xtreme 3. This level of fanservice doesn't provide anything good to the game, it doesn't bring players that actually play the game, it doesn't help grow out a fighting game scene, it doesn't make the game play better.

Yes, i don't want that kind of content to be even optional, microbikinis that only cover strategic parts, OMG breast physics (and don't come up with "this is since the ps1 era", it was that way because they had no tech to make it better).

This. I'm honestly tired at the moment of doing multiple paragraphs explaining my point, but we are well past the point of trying to certainly believe that having all of these options suddenly helps the game be better... it doesn't.

Mortal Kombat won't suddenly get better if we add in the ability to randomly chop off limbs like Bloodstorm, having a bajillion fatalities like Tattoo Assassins or even have instant pit fatalities like in the later PS2 Mortal Kombat games.
That same logic applies to Dead or Alive, like it or not. There is no need nor point for a universal Breast Slider, there is no need or point for micro-kini's, naked aprons and other fetishistic clothing by the goddamned bucket load.
None of those make the GAMEPLAY BETTER! That's the problem of Dead or Alive 5 from Ultimate on, we gotten more DLC for costumes than we had of new stages, new characters or even gameplay tweaks by a freaking metric load. There is no need for the fanservice overload as it will just turn people away, plain and simple. Despite how much you want to say otherwise:

Sometimes... less is more. The loss of Tag Mode sucks... but as we've seen from DOA4 and 5, they was never balanced AT ALL for the gameplay and thus at this point having them there would ultimately be a pointless mode because they would need far more work balancing Tag Mode than have it again basically be an even more ridiculous Marvel. There's no point for a Breast Physics Slider as it does nothing for the game and only ruins it for others. There's no point for Gravure DLC... because this isn't Hentai.
 
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