Momiji General Discussion

[Force_of_Nature]

Started putting some new stuff to use at casuals. My results: certainly an improvement, especially at R1F.

• 3P is the best stun she has, since they can't SE your launchers after the fact (check the frames, tell me I'm wrong). They have to hold the follow-up, which leaves you with so many options: high launch, mid launch (kick or punch), CB, 41236T, your low throw of choice, more stun...
• Off of Tenku T, I was reliably landing 3P4P~3P4PP on any slope, with some rare issues when I finished with 6PKKP.
• She has no PFTs that make any sense to use. That said, 66PP is a godly wake-up kick punisher.
• She has no good string delays, save for 6PP hold-baiting.
  
• Unless I am missing something crucial, Kasumi and Christie are probably Momiji's worst match-ups, simply for the 9/11 high/mid issue forcing her to stay defensive.
  
• Momiji might just be high-B/low-A tier, if you believe in tiers.

That said, for future research, is there really any point in using her 214PP+K?

For Kasumi & Christie. Zone them out with Momiji's superior spacing. Momiji's movement is also excellent with KBD. Don't fight either in close range. When in doubt 2P Christie because her lows are slow. When you get on the offensive try to stay on it. Momiji is a solid A-Tier. As for 214PP+K, that gives a SDS right? (Or am I thinking of something else?)

 

[Xernuht]

For Kasumi & Christie. Zone them out with Momiji's superior spacing. Momiji's movement is also excellent with KBD. Don't fight either in close range. When in doubt 2P Christie because her lows are slow. When you get on the offensive try to stay on it. Momiji is a solid A-Tier. As for 214PP+K, that gives a SDS right? (Or am I thinking of something else?)

Both strikes do, but it doesn't force hold-guessing or get you something guaranteed because her back-turn game isn't good at all... unless I'm missing something.

 

[Saber]

That said, for future research, is there really any point in using her 214PP+K?

After 214PP+K, BT4P bounds at Critical Level 3, if not then it's an extra stun. If your opponent isn't SEing/not SEing enough, it's a very good option. Only downside to the move is that it's not guaranteed (she'd be broken if it were) - it's escapable by one frame, so while it's not guaranteed, it's still shitload difficult to escape it, and you condition your opponent to SE and block, which opens up the option to tick throw for you.

She has no PFTs that make any sense to use. That said, 66PP is a godly wake-up kick punisher.

After Tenku T, 1P, delay the K. Whiffing 1P and letting them tech will result in +9, and 1PK if they don't tech will be +17.

After a wallsplat, 214PP+K will ground bounce. While she'll be left negative on lightweights and above, on Alpha she'll be +4, IIRC.

She has no good string delays, save for 6PP hold-baiting.

KP/KK
3P4PP/3PP
These two are very delayable.

1PP/1PK
6PP/6PK
These two are somewhat delayable because of the small delay window.

She can't really delay strings because she's either mid-air or she doesn't even have strings to be delayed. Oh how I would kill for a high/low or mid/low string.

 

[Xernuht]

After 214PP+K, BT4P bounds at Critical Level 3, if not then it's an extra stun. If your opponent isn't SEing/not SEing enough, it's a very good option. Only downside to the move is that it's not guaranteed (she'd be broken if it were) - it's escapable by one frame, so while it's not guaranteed, it's still shitload difficult to escape it, and you condition your opponent to SE and block, which opens up the option to tick throw for you.

Okay, that clears things up. Good to know.

After Tenku T, 1P, delay the K. Whiffing 1P and letting them tech will result in +9, and 1PK if they don't tech will be +17.

So I have to trade all of the damage on a risky set-up for it? Damn.

After a wallsplat, 214PP+K will ground bounce. While she'll be left negative on lightweights and above, on Alpha she'll be +4, IIRC.

I assume that's because of Alpha's wake-up?

KP/KK
3P4PP/3PP
These two are very delayable.

1PP/1PK
6PP/6PK
These two are somewhat delayable because of the small delay window.

She can't really delay strings because she's either mid-air or she doesn't even have strings to be delayed. Oh how I would kill for a high/low or mid/low string.

I know, right?

 

[Kuga]

I have problems with Jann Lee. 11i mp of his really can screw us up especially since he has so many setups for it and steping is risky because of its continues. Spacing isnt helping because he also is good at controling distace with moves like 66k, 66k+g, 6k etc. He have so many fast mids that is actually dangerous to use 2p and moves like 1p. Have to learn patience lol.

 

[Tenryuga]

214P+K P is a guaranteed wallsplat. As for Jann Lee you should only respect him in close range because of his 11i mid. Since he HAS to use this you can use your mid punch hold to make reads on it in neutral. Also step is not a risk unless the Jann lee player is using his slow low from 6P2K. Step ATTACK is a risk however because you will get counterblown by his 6PP.

In spacing Momiji is superior because she can both get in and keep out. Jann lee can only keep out. Her moves for spacing are also much faster than his so she should be winning trades here more often when you clash.

 

[Kuga]

I see. Gotta look for some Janns later. Btw yesterday i started to use Tenku P/T from far away after i saw that Phase 4 players use that teleport kick from air and copied idea and it works quite nice. Especially as a wu.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

For those of you having issues with any character with an i9 jab, or players who opt to jab pressure often. 8P is a high crush, stuns on neutral hit, launches on counter hit.

Kasumi and Christie are certainly not Momiji's worst match ups.

Range pokes;

- H+K - i12 frame high kick, - 7 and -6 at tip. Tracks. Learn the art of fuzzy guard.
- PK - Same as H+K
- 4P - i14 mid punch, -5 on block
- K - i12 frame high kick, KK is -6, KP is -9. K does 24 damage, H+K does 28.
- 6P - i12 frame mid punch, 6PK has very good delay and enters threshold on neutral hit.
- 4K - i15 frame mid kick, -5 on block.
- 3K - i14 frame mid kick, has a delayable follow up into 3KP that stuns on neutral hit. 3KP8 is safe from throws.
- 44P8 - i15 frame mid punch, delayable into hop keeps you safe from throws.
- 2K - i14 frame low sweep, -2 on neutral hit, throw punishable if blocked upclose. Stuns on counter hit, great way to chip in strike range unexpectedly.
- 2H+K - Crouching low sweep, very good range, advised to use at tip range. +12 on neutral hit which is great frame advantage. Trips everyone up when used unexpectedly and at tip range.
- 66P - i15 mid punch, +7 on neutral hit, stuns on counter hit, -5 on block. Great range with a tracking follow up (advised to use follow only on 66P hit confirms). Get's Momiji in close.
- 44K - i18 frame mid kick, stuns on all hit status, -3 on block, leaves her back turned. Very good range.
- 1P - Crouching low punch, minus on neutral hit but that's irrelevant when using it as range low poke at tip range, but stuns on counter hit. Has follow ups.

Tip when spacing: Using Momiji's 9P hop just outside of strike range is a great way to bait anyone to press buttons. Because everyone is concerned about hitting you since you look so vulnerable from hopping within' range. You can do a few things depending on how players react to this;

- Block - Safest option
- Hold - On reads
- Side step - On reads
- Whiff punish - When a strike has moderate or slow recovery, fast whiff punishment is good.
- Range poke - The same deal as whiff punishing, only you're going to use a faster range poke, rather than a 66P.

 

[RoboJoe]

I don't know about 9P. I figure people would rather just take the second or so they get to reposition themselves if you try it. Why would someone try to punish a short hop when they know they are outside attack range?

 

[splslick]

For those of you having issues with any character with an i9 jab, or players who opt to jab pressure often. 8P is a high crush, stuns on neutral hit, launches on counter hit.

Kasumi and Christie are certainly not Momiji's worst match ups.

Range pokes;

- H+K - i12 frame high kick, - 7 and -6 at tip. Learn the art of fuzzy guard.
- PK - Same as H+K
- 4P - i14 mid punch, -5 on block
- K - i12 frame high kick, KK is -6, KP is -9. K does 24 damage, H+K does 28.
- 6P - i12 frame mid punch, 6PK has very good delay and enters threshold on neutral hit.
- 4K - i15 frame mid kick, -5 on block.
- 3K - i14 frame mid kick, has a delayable follow up into 3KP that stuns on neutral hit. 3KP8 is safe from throws.
- 44P8 - i15 frame mid punch, delayable into hop keeps you safe from throws.
- 2K - i14 frame low sweep, -2 on neutral hit, throw punishable if blocked upclose. Stuns on counter hit, great way to chip in strike range unexpectedly.
- 2H+K - Crouching low sweep, very good range, advised to use at tip range. +12 on neutral hit which is great frame advantage. Trips everyone up when used unexpectedly and at tip range.
- 66P - i15 mid punch, +7 on neutral hit, stuns on counter hit, -5 on block. Great range with a tracking follow up (advised to use follow only on 66P hit confirms). Get's Momiji in close.
- 44K - i18 frame mid kick, stuns on all hit status, -3 on block, leaves her back turned. Very good range.
- 1P - Crouching low punch, minus on neutral hit but that's irrelevant when using it as range low poke at tip range, but stuns on counter hit. Has follow ups.

Tip when spacing: Using Momiji's 9P hop just outside of strike range is a great way to bait anyone to press buttons. Because everyone is concerned about hitting you since you look so vulnerable from hopping within' range. You can do a few things depending on how players react to this;

- Block - Safest option
- Hold - On reads
- Side step - On reads
- Whiff punish - When a strike has moderate or slow recovery, fast whiff punishment is good.
- Range poke - The same deal as whiff punishing, only you're going to use a faster range poke, rather than a 66P.

That's good to know....Glad to see she has a fast high crush...For some reason, I forgot about 8p =[

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I don't know about 9P. I figure people would rather just take the second or so they get to reposition themselves if you try it. Why would someone try to punish a short hop when they know they are outside attack range?

Because it's all about baiting people out to do something. You're not hopping out of strike range, you're doing within' strike range where it's possible to get hit, when you actually won't. It's the same concept as doing 1P+K spins just outside of strike range/just within' strike range as Ayane.

Moving back and forth in and out of strike range generically is the same deal. It's called footsies.

 

[RoboJoe]

Because it's all about baiting people out to do something. You're not hopping out of strike range, you're doing within' strike range where it's possible to get hit, when you actually won't. It's the same concept as doing 1P+K spins just outside of strike range/just within' strike range as Ayane.

Moving back and forth in and out of strike range generically is the same deal. It's called footsies.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think people will fall for the bait and attack. Momiji recovers fast enough that I believe that people won't risk attacking. I think they will just take the opportunity to space. With Ayane's 1p+k at that range, I understand. They press a button, you spin back and punish the whiff. It's reactionary. With 9p I don't understand. They have to see the move first to try and attack. If they see the move and know they can't do anything to 9p, why would they try? Maybe I'm missing something obvious. I don't know.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think people will fall for the bait and attack. Momiji recovers fast enough that I believe that people won't risk attacking. I think they will just take the opportunity to space. With Ayane's 1p+k at that range, I understand. They press a button, you spin back and punish the whiff. It's reactionary. With 9p I don't understand. They have to see the move first to try and attack. If they see the move and know they can't do anything to 9p, why would they try? Maybe I'm missing something obvious. I don't know.

You'd be surprised at how many times I've caught every single player I've ever played with this. The point of utilizing it as such is when you're able to play a solid footsies game. The 9P hop is effective only when your spacing is very effective to make it work.

The same can be applied when you use strikes at certain ranges that look "seemingly" punishable, when they really aren't. You're sticking yourself just enough to bait a player's response.

You want to pay close attention to what that first response was, and whatever it was, you want to set it up again the next time since you already know what they're going to do about it.

It's how you begin to control the opponent's actions as you start controlling the neutral.

The concept isn't any different than a top level Ryu player using his fireball and jab feints to control the neutral, poke with a fireball, and bait out responses from his opponent in Street Fighter.

 

[Tenryuga]

9P hop works as a bait. Players that are looking to get in will take the opportunity to get in. Characters with superior spacing will use the opportunity to try and punish that hop. Other players will just sit there and watch you. No matter what response the player uses you can take that opportunity to gather data on your opponent and try something.

 

[Xernuht]

9P hop works as a bait. Players that are looking to get in will take the opportunity to get in. Characters with superior spacing will use the opportunity to try and punish that hop. Other players will just sit there and watch you. No matter what response the player uses you can take that opportunity to gather data on your opponent and try something.

Seriously, the number of times I've sneaked in 9P~any throw is ridiculous.

Sure, sometimes it's a dropped 9P~P+K~T input, but they still eat it.

 

[Kuga]

I experimented some with 9K and found out that good option after it is 44K because when it hits BTed character combo 44K, BT P, 6PK, 6PKKP/K is guaranteed. 44K is also great whiff punisher and spacing move at tip range. Especialy good with characters that recovers BT after move like Helena because of that combo.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Hello fellow Momiji players.

I just joined this forum today so I'm another person who can share tech!
I hope I can be of service to anyone. I know a lot of combos and good setups - stylish and creative ones, that is - but don't have much knowledge about Momiji's match-ups. So, could anyone tell me who are Momiji's worst and best match-ups and why? Thanks in advance!

 

[JKT]

Hello fellow Momiji players.

I just joined this forum today so I'm another person who can share tech!
I hope I can be of service to anyone. I know a lot of combos and good setups - stylish and creative ones, that is - but don't have much knowledge about Momiji's match-ups. So, could anyone tell me who are Momiji's worst and best match-ups and why? Thanks in advance!

Hello! Welcome to FSD ^_^! Although I can't personally help you explain the matchups, I can direct you to the thread which can:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/momijji-match-up-theard.3504/
Although it seems it hasn't been updated lately, its at least a start ^_^.

This is a thread talking about the DOA5U Tier List. I can't seem to find the part where people talk about Momiji, but if you look around you may have better luck lol:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/the-official-tier-list-with-discussion-thread.3817/

On the first page is a spreadsheet detailing the matchups of every character. HOWEVER, its just the numbers and no explanation, which is why I tried to find the section where people talk about Momiji lol. If I have time I'll try to look again. Sorry I can't be more help than this >_<!

 

[splslick]

Maybe I completely forgot that someone mentioned it or I am just really tired...But what do you guys do when you knock someone down with Momiji? Do ya go for pseudo force tech? Do ya try to blow up the wakeup kick via hold or double jump gimmick or KBD away from it or just 7p?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Me personally, I use 2H+K for a force tech, puts me at +17. That makes my 214P+K guard break i10 frames (same speed as most jabs) to use as pressure, and it tracks. If it's blocked, I'm at +6 anyway, plus I have everything else I want strike-wise at +17.

After wall slams, I like to do 1P/1PK for okizeme;

1PK will automatically force you up if you do not tech up after a wall slam. 1P picks up at least +5 frame advantage if you do tech up after a wall slam (and everyone presses a button after they tech so I just counter hit them).

Doing 1PK the first time after a wall slam will let me know what a player does often after the first wall knockdown. If they tech up, I know how to control that. If they don't tech up, I will force you off the ground and be at massive frame advantage. If you're the kind of player that tries doing a delay wake up, I have 2H+K for the same situation, which will hit or if it whiffs, I'll at least be at +0.