Team Ninja is their own worst enemy.

[Jyu_Viole_Grace]

First of all, I think everyone should always having into account to this great man words:

In many cases, trying to fix a game (or product) after release, is no longer something you can achieve, mainly because the team will be smaller after the release and will be working in post-release content at the same time that the company will be working in other projects.

It's preferable delaying the project that trying to fix it post-release because these reasons. Yes, the game can be better but a lot things won't be addressed and will be still there.

Look at Bloodstained, it's now a good game because the team knew they have to delay it and do their best instead releasing it and trying to fix smalls things over the time.

Will be able for to Team Ninja to add tag battles (in this generation)? I really doubt it. Will they update the story mode with a better direction? nope, as much they will add new and ... shitty chapters (like these two KOF chapters). Will they fix the HUGE amount of graphical issues in the game? not happening because even characters models are worse than DOA 5 models, they won't get rid of these low-polygon models and start working again in all the characters.

Yes, they can add more stages and costumes but they won't fix everything is wrong with the base content.

Same with the battle system, you can't do huge changes to the system through updates because flipping all the time will give players bad vibes. They should have thought about the SS, stun game and ground game BEFORE the release, not after the release. You can't just do this and think: "well, if people don't like it we will change it later", as a battle designer you MUST think in everything before releasing your game.

They can address all this with a Ultimate version but if they handle it in the wrong way (like they did with DOA 5 Ultimate, forcing you to buy a new game), the community could be even smaller ... and here's when Koei can do things even worse with their shitty policies.

Yes, 92€ season pases each 4 months is not something good in most people eyes but if the game is good, like DOA 5 was, people would still ignore it and keep playing it ... but that isn't DOA 6 case. They have to undesrtand that ... DOA 6 isn't a good game (as a whole product) and because that they will have to do extra efforts to convince current and new players to keep playing and supporting this entry.

First they have to understand everything that is wrong with this game, if they don't get it, there's nothing to do and we still don't know what the new director thoughts about the current state of this game are.

 

[MasterHavik]

Sure Team Ninja is the reason DOA isn't bigger mainly due to its poor direction that Shimbori went with, from the famitsu & IGN (along with other interviews which wasn't helping much) which kicked off the whole drama. From these following comments he made from various interviews for some examples:

As　a visual image ofShinborias a whole, this time I am planning to draw a character for "coolness".After all,there is an opinion that"DOA" series is "It is embarrassing that girls are too sexy and play."Indeed, when I went to last year's "EVO 2017" (the World Tournament of Fighting Fighting Games held in Las Vegas every year), the fans gave me the opinion that "I want you to make it a bit cooler game."There are also such things, this time,we value the parenthesis so thateveryone inthe players can be proud of being a player of"DOA".

https://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/doa6-famitsu-interviews-shimbori.7060/

“We wanted to make a more cool and mature Dead or Alive this time, and to that end we made a conscious decision to make the characters less sexualized,” Shimbori told IGN.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/0...-on-can-team-ninja-balance-familiar-and-fresh

“Toning down the sexual expression doesn’t relate to esports,” Shimbori said. “It’s more of a world trend. We’re considering how to make this franchise well-received everywhere.”

https://archive.fo/BKMYB#selection-1589.0-1589.178

Yes, definitely. One of the major aims was to tone down the features of the women which caused some trouble in the past. Our aim is to show this as a real fighting game. To do this, we are using a new engine for the game. This has helped the push on the visuals, the engine letting the game look more realistic.

https://wccftech.com/dead-or-alive-6-gamescom-interview/#disqus_thread

“To be honest, we did a bit too much with some costumes in the past. And this no longer corresponds to the time in which we live. What you saw today [ he shows one of Christie’s suits, biker, the screenshot of the preview ] is the farthest we’ll go in terms of sexualization. And it’s still very sexy!”

“No. As I told you, it is a real desire on our part to stick to the social criteria to respect to be accepted at present. And unfortunately, too sexy games are no longer accepted today.

“[…] Again, no, it was not our concern. We were just guided by a certain moral sense” (translated)

http://www.gameblog.fr/interview_1187_rencontre-avec-yohei-shimbori-directeur-et-producteur-de-la-

“There have been a lot of changes in the world in recent years, and I decided that we should reflect those changes by resetting our approach to sexual imagery, after Dead or Alive 5,”

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/22/18192019/dead-or-alive-6-sexualized-characters

What he did was wind up repeating what DOA5 did before their DLC lineup:

"We've always had the sex factor in the game; in the past, the female characters had to have big breasts, they had to have scanty dress," says Hayashi. "In DoA 5 especially, we're trying to focus on the real women that surround us; the voice of a female, the mannerisms. We are being realistic about it."

"We want to show something that's more high class, that adult males of our generation could look at a woman [character] and be impressed with her as a woman, not just as a pin-up," he continues. "That's what we wanted to tell our fans."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...ayashi_on_more_realistic_respectful_games.php

The Ninja Gaiden 3 feedback did have one surprising effect on the development of Dead or Alive 5, Shimbori says. "We were getting feedback from the overseas offices to tone down the sexuality -- to tone down the sexiness of the game, and of the characters,"

https://gamasutra.com/view/news/178358/Team_Ninja_learns_to_fear_its_fans.php#.UGc1BPl24hV

Shimbori was involved with DOA5 as Director, he should've learn from that experience. It was one thing for trying it during DOA5 development, but this direction of toning sex appeal down should been scrapped from any future installments from the main series. Maybe Shimbori as director (plus producer for DOA6) is why DOA just isn't that big since he keeps going with this whole "less sexual" along with trying to appeal to everyone while pleasing no one. Those concepts of being "cool and less sexual" would be better off as entire new IP. All he need to do was take some examples from Yakuza Creator (Toshihiro Nagoshi):

“First and foremost, we think about the Japanese audience and then we start thinking about Asian audiences,” Nagoshi said. “We make sure we create a game that’s good and fun for them. Hopefully, this game will reach as many audiences in the West as possible.”

He added that “there’s that order to things when we’re developing and that mindset is something that I don’t think will change even as we go on,” mostly because if they “start thinking about different audiences, catering to all these different people, it will really lessen the appeal of what we’re making here.”

https://nichegamer.com/2019/06/19/y...a-first-catering-too-much-lessens-our-appeal/

Idea is Shimbori shouldn't even try to think about different audiences like serious crowd who found "girls too sexy", try to cater their main audience.



With DOA6, fanservice wasn't fully used (besides the collectors edition & EVO core values situation) as their selling point through out their development with their videos (not counting DLC), and all these interviews I mention. If you were using fanservice, Shimbori wouldn't be coming out with "wanting our game to be cooler", "sexual content is less acceptable", "were trying to sell it to many stores as possible", or whatever reason Shimbori says in these interviews. Better usage of fanservice would be this for example:

What DOA could do is highlight the costumes (mainly very sexy outfits & swimsuits to demonstrate beside their main outfits both old & new), selection of female details, and optional breast physics.

Also another thing about your comment about "I think Team Ninja is the one to blame for why DOA 6 has playerbase", even if DOA or whatever fighter didn't use fanservice as a selling point. What if you'd still deal with the not being able to buy costumes separately, having bugs that weren't fixed, and game being overpriced despite never selling fanservice?



Honestly with all the stuff that came from these interviews, it should be no wonder why people would complain despite what others may find the people find complaining about sexy girls annoying. It should be reminded that toning stuff down from established characters/franchise is going to be met with complaints whether you like it or not. Imagine MK did something similar to its Gore & Violence, I guarantee the people who enjoy that kind of content would be complaining alot.



Thats really going to depend on who you asking, what if people found the game mechanics sucked (not Me I enjoy it) the only thing DOA6 did was add Auto Combo, Slow Down Camera, & Meter. Maybe the reason DOA doesn't get the respect compare to other fighters. According to the one comment I found in this videos comment section when replying AshXXMayftw (within replies):

All your doing with toning fanservice down is just wasting time.



That comment sounds more like all DOA need is single player content (which DOA6 has, unless it needs extra gimmicks like MK, and some micro-transaction), even MK didn't had the best fighting especially from its 3D era. DOA maybe need to have easy inputs and some dial combos like MK. If DOA was an extra (since were on MK), the fanservice would be at the end before the title like how MK sells its fatalities. But on a serious note I agree DOA should be use as an extra since there are other games besides DOA, but in order for this to happen Team Ninja need to just leave fanservice like how DOA5 handle its from its Updates & DLC.



That opinion of some YouTuber's friends is as relevant as the one who thinks DOA mechanics suck in the comment section of another YouTuber. Even if you weren't selling fanservice, what if people still button mash and didn't take time to understand the game?



I 100% agree with that comment, all we need to do is just leave the costumes & sexy girls alone.

PS. I think Season Passes are valuable since I'm getting an entire set plus some extras that come with it.



Even if that event didn't happen, DOA6 pre orders were not doing good compare to DOAX3 Scarlet pre orders in Japanese region.

View attachment 28739

Which I posted on this topic: https://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/official-dead-or-alive-xtreme-thread.6696/page-194

Feb 13, 2019 #3,877

Great response. Let's go line by line.

For all the things you pointed with Shimbori I can say if anything it made look like a hypocrite. The Evo Japan event and some base costuems at launch tell you otherwise of the game being tone down. What I hate about the whole thing and everything he said is that he looks like a liar and pulled one over everyone looking forward to that. That is what you should be upset at as the people mad about it being tone down realize they were wasting their time. I just don't like how him or TN sticks to anything. They just flip flop and cave to other parties. I give them credit as they are hustling the pervs for all their money since the real sexy stuff cost money. It is pretty smart on KT's part. I actually really liek the art direction and costuems this time as I feel there is actual thought put into them. Granted, TN knows people will buy them copy and paste costumes. Look at the pirate costumes for example. I fear people will still buy it even if the DLC shows shortcuts.

Wow I didn't know the pre-orders were that bad. I just think at the end of the day TN needs a new marketing department.

 

[werewolfgold]

Wow I didn't know the pre-orders were that bad. I just think at the end of the day TN needs a new marketing department.

1. Those pre-orders are only for the collectors editions.
2. It's for literally one store with apparently only 14 locations in Japan.

The situation probably wasn't super great, but this doesn't tell us much of anything. And that's why you never post anything from One Angry Gamer, @Kasumi-Phase-X.

 

[Radiance]

I've played DOA6 twice in two weeks. I don't really play anymore because whenever I do play, it's with the same 2-3 people online. The DOA tournament league is the only thing keeping this game going with the 90k prize pool incentive..

list of issues I have.

- lack luster stages.
- stages that were recycled.
-stages with a shit ton of glitches
-launched game with no way of playing friends online (which is what most casuals want to do).
-once lobby patches dropped, the pc version for many became unplayable (not to mention pc ranked still can't filter out connection status).
-the story mode sucked
-$93 season pass which had lack luster costumes, and lack luster guest characters (one of which were previously dlc).
-characters have very very few costumes with a shit ton of recolors (because why implement a color editor option??)
-we have all these damn coins with nothing to buy.
-terrible PR/marketing (We're toning down the sexualization of our game; goes on JP evo to show bass eating Nyo's hot pocket)
-fucking with the meta of the game
-TN likes the idea of a throw break system but "we (still) can't afford them)

the list goes on...
I don't know why people keep defending TN.

 

[MasterHavik]

I've played DOA6 twice in two weeks. I don't really play anymore because whenever I do play, it's with the same 2-3 people online. The DOA tournament league is the only thing keeping this game going with the 90k prize pool incentive..

list of issues I have.

- lack luster stages.
- stages that were recycled.
-stages with a shit ton of glitches
-launched game with no way of playing friends online (which is what most casuals want to do).
-once lobby patches dropped, the pc version for many became unplayable (not to mention pc ranked still can't filter out connection status).
-the story mode sucked
-$93 season pass which had lack luster costumes, and lack luster guest characters (one of which were previously dlc).
-characters have very very few costumes with a shit ton of recolors (because why implement a color editor option??)
-we have all these damn coins with nothing to buy.
-terrible PR/marketing (We're toning down the sexualization of our game; goes on JP evo to show bass eating Nyo's hot pocket)
-fucking with the meta of the game
-TN likes the idea of a throw break system but "we (still) can't afford them)

the list goes on...
I don't know why people keep defending TN.

You may be right on the tournament thing.

On the stages they look nice but I argee with the glitches and how they were recyled.
is bad.

No lobbies

93 dollar season pass is KT taking advantage of the casuals.

I didn't expect you to post in my thread Jules.

 

[mizking]

I'm not sure if this game was even worth my 113 bucks lol. It's actually the first time I bought a special edition for any game really. Graphics wise the color scheme is better than 5 but everything else hurts my eyes to the point where I have to boot up LR again till my eyes stop hurting.

Fanservice wise is pretty awful with the very low variety of costumes (impossible to unlock when it first came out) in favour of different colours. Also they made Kasumi's blue outfit and it's sleeveless alternates unlockable over being available from the start (I also predicted they would do this 7 years ago)

 

[MasterHavik]

I'm not sure if this game was even worth my 113 bucks lol. It's actually the first time I bought a special edition for any game really. Graphics wise the color scheme is better than 5 but everything else hurts my eyes to the point where I have to boot up LR again till my eyes stop hurting.

Fanservice wise is pretty awful with the very low variety of costumes (impossible to unlock when it first came out) in favour of different colours. Also they made Kasumi's blue outfit and it's sleeveless alternates unlockable over being available from the start (I also predicted they would do this 7 years ago)

Do you have sensitive eyes? That sounds serious.

I think fanservice it is on par with 5 but I feel there is a theme with characters for once. Like when I pick the wedding dress for Tina it is different from Mila. I think the art direction in 6 is pretty strong in my opinion.

 

[Jyu_Viole_Grace]

I still think they should have never took the "toning down" route in almost every single interview and they should have just focused in gameplay.

SoulCalibur VI is an example of how release a game with HUGE amount of fanservice and getting almost 0 controversy. Hell, they willl showcast Taki and Ivy at EVO and there isn't a "softness" toggle unlike DOA and not "e-sports" main costumes for them.

These American TV commercials weren't good, obviously but focusing your marketing in talking all the time about how you will tone down the fanservice ... will only bring more attention to that topic. Both people and media won't ignore it because you say that.

At the end of the day the situation was the same, the fanservice being the main point because they don't know how to handle interviews unlike Motohiro Okubo or Yoko Taro.

 

[Kasumi-Phase-X]

Great response. Let's go line by line.

For all the things you pointed with Shimbori I can say if anything it made look like a hypocrite. The Evo Japan event and some base costuems at launch tell you otherwise of the game being tone down. What I hate about the whole thing and everything he said is that he looks like a liar and pulled one over everyone looking forward to that. That is what you should be upset at as the people mad about it being tone down realize they were wasting their time. I just don't like how him or TN sticks to anything. They just flip flop and cave to other parties. I give them credit as they are hustling the pervs for all their money since the real sexy stuff cost money. It is pretty smart on KT's part. I actually really liek the art direction and costuems this time as I feel there is actual thought put into them. Granted, TN knows people will buy them copy and paste costumes. Look at the pirate costumes for example. I fear people will still buy it even if the DLC shows shortcuts.

Wow I didn't know the pre-orders were that bad. I just think at the end of the day TN needs a new marketing department.

For all the things you pointed with Shimbori I can say if anything it made look like a hypocrite.

What I hate about the whole thing and everything he said is that he looks like a liar and pulled one over everyone looking forward to that.

That is what you should be upset at as the people mad about it being tone down realize they were wasting their time.

I just don't like how him or TN sticks to anything. They just flip flop and cave to other parties.

This is what happens when you try to appeal to everyone while delivering content that doesn't please everyone from either side, rather than sticking what DOA5 had through out its lifespan which could've solved everything (assuming it would've been enough). These interviews alone were irritating (The stuff you want Me to be upset at) especially we had that gameinformer mention: "Of course we’re going to tone down at this point, but for downloadable content, we have to see what gamers really want, what their response is. Not all the gamers want the same thing, but we want to ask their opinions, all of them, and get feedback on it."

https://www.gameinformer.com/e3-201...-on-de-emphasizing-the-sexiness-of-the-series

The way he appeals is depending on what direction DOA mainly by what other people (groups) say like Overseas Team (DOA5) & EVO people (DOA6) to tone sex appeal down, and sex appeal crowd not responding to well with that (which would've been one thing if it was a new direction), and with the addition to this PSU interview: "There are a lot of different things involved in this approach. With DOAX3 we probably took it a little too far with the way things were shown in that game, and with the VR version we got a lot of flak for that. With DOA6 it’s unlike X3. We want to be able to show it as a proper fighting game."

https://www.psu.com/news/dead-or-alive-6-interview-with-yohei-shimbori/

Which came from this:

Which had response like these "Journalist" (which are the fun police):

"Okay, so maybe that does frustrate me. But it’s the notion of VR as paradise that boggles the mind. The mode appeals directly to that customer who reduces a woman to an object, not a character with personality quirks and interests."

https://archive.is/gHUHk

'Dead or Alive' VR is basically sexual assault, the game
Apparently, 'no means no' doesn't apply to virtual reality.

https://archive.is/eYdKp#selection-1561.0-1567.59

Also the edits to Break Blow to Marie, Honoka, & Nico (recently Kula):

https://www.freestepdodge.com/threa...ed-break-blows-on-marie-honoka-and-nico.8393/

In My personal opinion, if I was in footsteps of Shimbori who felt we took things too far with DOA and maybe think its best for something more toned down. It would've been a much better idea to try another IP fighter with that same toned down method, and having the same gameplay as DOA.

The Evo Japan event and some base costuems at launch tell you otherwise of the game being tone down.

I actually really liek the art direction and costuems this time as I feel there is actual thought put into them.

EVO Japan did showed off the photo mode where you record replays or have CPU vs CPU match where you can take pictures (like DOA5), costumes doesn't always tell me of the game being toned down because we also have clothing destruction (which is weaker compare to some of DOA5 DLC when some DOA6 bases were destructible) & jiggle options (which is more like DOA1 instead of what DOA5+ introduce). But by that logic their outfit selection is pretty much DOA5 base with color swaps like DOA1, and missing Xtreme swimsuits (which were unlockables via Master Difficulty & Online Matches when patched in DOA5) that Christie, Lisa, & Tina had. DOA6 has some costumes to start with before we get to DLC, which is faithful to the DOA main title.

I give them credit as they are hustling the pervs for all their money since the real sexy stuff cost money. It is pretty smart on KT's part.

The more important thing is they provide variety of outfits from themes, classics, swimsuits, & contest designs (from modest & over top sexx appeal designs) which makes DLC lifespan last as long as SFIV (soon SFV) Updates/DLC (not as much), even with the most expensive Season Pass in existence.

Granted, TN knows people will buy them copy and paste costumes. Look at the pirate costumes for example. I fear people will still buy it even if the DLC shows shortcuts.

Which is no different from what DOA5 did from its DLC lifespan, the only ones that tend to be different are classics, swimsuits (with some exceptions), different brands/artists (except KOF & Attack on Titan), & contest designs are the ones that aren't copy pasted designs.

Wow I didn't know the pre-orders were that bad.

This is a sample that I happen to found (which doesn't fully reflect all the pre orders).

And that's why you never post anything from One Angry Gamer, @Kasumi-Phase-X.

Guess where I found all these articles/archives about "toning sex appeal down" (others I mention in this post) that I had to dig up for, along with following during DOA6 development (which isn't always here, & not in eventhubs). (Save this conversation for a PM so that way we don't get off topic)

 

[MasterHavik]

I still think they should have never took the "toning down" route in almost every single interview and they should have just focused in gameplay.

SoulCalibur VI is an example of how release a game with HUGE amount of fanservice and getting almost 0 controversy. Hell, they willl showcast Taki and Ivy at EVO and there isn't a "softness" toggle unlike DOA and not "e-sports" main costumes for them.

These American TV commercials weren't good, obviously but focusing your marketing in talking all the time about how you will tone down the fanservice ... will only bring more attention to that topic. Both people and media won't ignore it because you say that.

At the end of the day the situation was the same, the fanservice being the main point because they don't know how to handle interviews unlike Motohiro Okubo or Yoko Taro.

Well SC6 was market very well despite the Tira DLC thing. You can get away with things if you don't make them the focus. They sold you the gameplay and "Yo SC is back. We got Talim."

Yoko Taro is a brilliant man who didn't have to pander to anyone as he told a powerful story. 2B and A2 are nice but anyone who has played Nier automata tells you about the amazing story not 2B's ass. One thing I hate about this crowd is that they feel fanservice can make or break a game. I even had some tell me fanservice is mroe important than gameplay even though video games are an interactive medium.

This is what happens when you try to appeal to everyone while delivering content that doesn't please everyone from either side, rather than sticking what DOA5 had through out its lifespan which could've solved everything (assuming it would've been enough). These interviews alone were irritating (The stuff you want Me to be upset at) especially we had that gameinformer mention: "Of course we’re going to tone down at this point, but for downloadable content, we have to see what gamers really want, what their response is. Not all the gamers want the same thing, but we want to ask their opinions, all of them, and get feedback on it."

https://www.gameinformer.com/e3-201...-on-de-emphasizing-the-sexiness-of-the-series

The way he appeals is depending on what direction DOA mainly by what other people (groups) say like Overseas Team (DOA5) & EVO people (DOA6) to tone sex appeal down, and sex appeal crowd not responding to well with that (which would've been one thing if it was a new direction), and with the addition to this PSU interview: "There are a lot of different things involved in this approach. With DOAX3 we probably took it a little too far with the way things were shown in that game, and with the VR version we got a lot of flak for that. With DOA6 it’s unlike X3. We want to be able to show it as a proper fighting game."

https://www.psu.com/news/dead-or-alive-6-interview-with-yohei-shimbori/

Which came from this:

Which had response like these "Journalist" (which are the fun police):

"Okay, so maybe that does frustrate me. But it’s the notion of VR as paradise that boggles the mind. The mode appeals directly to that customer who reduces a woman to an object, not a character with personality quirks and interests."

https://archive.is/gHUHk

'Dead or Alive' VR is basically sexual assault, the game
Apparently, 'no means no' doesn't apply to virtual reality.

https://archive.is/eYdKp#selection-1561.0-1567.59

Also the edits to Break Blow to Marie, Honoka, & Nico (recently Kula):

https://www.freestepdodge.com/threa...ed-break-blows-on-marie-honoka-and-nico.8393/

In My personal opinion, if I was in footsteps of Shimbori who felt we took things too far with DOA and maybe think its best for something more toned down. It would've been a much better idea to try another IP fighter with that same toned down method, and having the same gameplay as DOA.




EVO Japan did showed off the photo mode where you record replays or have CPU vs CPU match where you can take pictures (like DOA5), costumes doesn't always tell me of the game being toned down because we also have clothing destruction (which is weaker compare to some of DOA5 DLC when some DOA6 bases were destructible) & jiggle options (which is more like DOA1 instead of what DOA5+ introduce). But by that logic their outfit selection is pretty much DOA5 base with color swaps like DOA1, and missing Xtreme swimsuits (which were unlockables via Master Difficulty & Online Matches when patched in DOA5) that Christie, Lisa, & Tina had. DOA6 has some costumes to start with before we get to DLC, which is faithful to the DOA main title.



The more important thing is they provide variety of outfits from themes, classics, swimsuits, & contest designs (from modest & over top sexx appeal designs) which makes DLC lifespan last as long as SFIV (soon SFV) Updates/DLC (not as much), even with the most expensive Season Pass in existence.



Which is no different from what DOA5 did from its DLC lifespan, the only ones that tend to be different are classics, swimsuits (with some exceptions), different brands/artists (except KOF & Attack on Titan), & contest designs are the ones that aren't copy pasted designs.



This is a sample that I happen to found (which doesn't fully reflect all the pre orders).



Guess where I found all these articles/archives about "toning sex appeal down" (others I mention in this post) that I had to dig up for, along with following during DOA6 development (which isn't always here, & not in eventhubs). (Save this conversation for a PM so that way we don't get off topic)

Avoid citing OAG they are a right wing Kotaku.

Also this company has made it clear they want to see if they can produce low effort content and make max profits. People are buying the dlc up. People brought up Mai and Kula. KT nd TN in a way have already won. Also the DOA 5 DLC was heavily favor towards the female characters and is more fanservice than actual cool costumes. Though, I love the Deception, Samurai Warriros, Tatusnko, Blazblue, and Guilty Gear costumes.

 

[Jyu_Viole_Grace]

Well SC6 was market very well despite the Tira DLC thing. You can get away with things if you don't make them the focus. They sold you the gameplay and "Yo SC is back. We got Talim."

Yoko Taro is a brilliant man who didn't have to pander to anyone as he told a powerful story. 2B and A2 are nice but anyone who has played Nier automata tells you about the amazing story not 2B's ass. One thing I hate about this crowd is that they feel fanservice can make or break a game. I even had some tell me fanservice is mroe important than gameplay even though video games are an interactive medium.

That's what Team Ninja should do. They shouldn't focus their advertising talking about just the girls. Not talking about their body all the time but not saying they will tone them down either. Just treat it as something ordinary that don't need extra promotion.

You can make two similar scenarios and what will determine your success will be how you handle them. For example, you can add a beach stage with swimsuits and an extra mode trying to make the game more appealing. That's what DOA 5 did in the past.

DOA 5 added a "gravure more" where ... let's say, you could take adventage of the beach stage and swimsuits. This mode mixed a main DOA game with the Xtreme subseries and it was a big mistake. Now Xtreme players think both main games and Xtreme subseries are the same.

Instead that, they could have added a volley ball minigame where you can play with both male and female characters, adding multiplayer online, rankings and unlockables. They could even taking adventage of this and instead of selling DLC bikinis two times per year, just make them unlockables in this mode. After all this mode would be paid DLC, you will be giving people reasons to buy this mode but instead selling "sexy bikinis" to everyone eyes, you will be selling a "multiplayer minigame".

 

[werewolfgold]

Guess where I found all these articles/archives about "toning sex appeal down" (others I mention in this post) that I had to dig up for, along with following during DOA6 development (which isn't always here, & not in eventhubs). (Save this conversation for a PM so that way we don't get off topic)

If it's germane to the conversation, I don't see why it has to be limited to a PM. All I'm saying is that the data that you got from them was misleading to the point of being utterly useless. And unless whoever runs OAG is dense beyond dense, they're intentionally misleading people with such info. This is not the first time that it's happened in regards to them. It's a constant thing. It's just not a good place to go.

As for whether Shimbori did the right thing in marketing the game as toned down, he was probably stuck between a rock and a hard place. All of these fanservice-y games don't really have that high of production value when it comes to modeling, textures, etc. Most are just anime-style, or actual visual novels. It'd be a lot easier to turn a profit on those than making a 3D-fighting game with pseudo-realistic graphics. So, they probably have to go beyond the typical "fanservice" crowd if they want to make their money back. I don't know all the internal numbers for sure, but I'm just looking at overall sales of games in general. The message he'd have been getting from all sides is that their usual approach would only get them so much money.

However, it's awkward if every headline about your game is about the fanservice, lack of it or the fact that it has it. Either way, people aren't going to see the substance of the game. So, I agree with Jyu that they should've kept even mentioning that to a minimum and focusing on all the other cool things with the game.

BUT, the real problem is that the game was actually a cynical rush job that was released unfinished, full of bugs and graphic errors, and with a derpy costume unlock system. Even more fanservice wouldn't save them if they're not going to put out a quality game to begin with. If the game was spitting fire, it's likely that the complaints about toned-down sexiness would've just been lost in the wind.

 

[MasterHavik]

That's what Team Ninja should do. They shouldn't focus their advertising talking about just the girls. Not talking about their body all the time but not saying they will tone them down either. Just treat it as something ordinary that don't need extra promotion.

You can make two similar scenarios and what will determine your success will be how you handle them. For example, you can add a beach stage with swimsuits and an extra mode trying to make the game more appealing. That's what DOA 5 did in the past.

DOA 5 added a "gravure more" where ... let's say, you could take adventage of the beach stage and swimsuits. This mode mixed a main DOA game with the Xtreme subseries and it was a big mistake. Now Xtreme players think both main games and Xtreme subseries are the same.

Instead that, they could have added a volley ball minigame where you can play with both male and female characters, adding multiplayer online, rankings and unlockables. They could even taking adventage of this and instead of selling DLC bikinis two times per year, just make them unlockables in this mode. After all this mode would be paid DLC, you will be giving people reasons to buy this mode but instead selling "sexy bikinis" to everyone eyes, you will be selling a "multiplayer minigame".

Well the gravure mode was ready dumb in my opinion. We are fighting game, not softcore porn. I want a color editor and character customization not a mode where I look at the girl. You need to be interactive with your gamer. One thing that makes a lot of fanservice games bad is that they are swallow and do everything in their power to make you look instead of play.

 

[Jyu_Viole_Grace]

Well the gravure mode was ready dumb in my opinion. We are fighting game, not softcore porn. I want a color editor and character customization not a mode where I look at the girl. You need to be interactive with your gamer. One thing that makes a lot of fanservice game bad is that they are swallow and do everything in their power to make you look instead of play.

I'm not against gravure games existence but something like the "private paradise" DLC should be left only for the Xtreme subseries. Everything in its context.

I think that without Itagaki, Team Ninja sees everything just as black or white. There's nothing wrong with fanservice, the eye candy is not something bad per se but ... you have to know how to handle it.

Why private paradise doesn't make sense in a main DOA game?, it's easy and it goes even beyond the fanservice. What DOA lacks since Itagaki depart is context.

Go to youtube and search videos of that mode, seriously, do it. Take a good look of how the characters are behaving, their poses, when they smile, when they play with the sand or the water. That's how professional gravure idols work, that isn't how a regular girl would behave in the beach. They basically portrayed all DOA female characters as professional gravure idols.

In DOA each character has its own personality and meanwhile there are female characters with a strong sexy personality like Christie, Tina, Lisa or Nyotengu, there are others that go to the "cute and innocent" side.

That's what they didn't get with DOA 5, not all female characters are the same and not all of them would wear super skimpy clothes or know how to pose in a super sexy way.

Christie can wear her stripper costume due her persona. She doesn't wear it just to please the crowd, she wears it as a sign of her strong confidence, just like Tina and Lisa with their wrestling costumes and Nyotengu with her provocative costumes.

Characters like Hitomi or Kasumi shouldn't know how to pose like a professional gravure idol, the same way that Hitomi would never wear something like this:

One thing is giving normal bikinis and swimsuits to the characters, because after all that isn't something strange and other thing is treating your female characters as if all of them would be preofessional gravure idols. If you want to do that, don't do it in your main games, do it in your spin offs.

Itagaki knew this and that's why meanwhile he still portrayed beautiful women with some revealing outfits, he knew where to draw the red line with each one of them. He knew how to manage the eye candy factor, the current Team Ninja still don't know how to do it.

 

[TheTHCGamer]

The only thing this game currently has going for it is pushing the competitive scene narrative which is because they've already invested money into it. Everything else seems like an afterthought from the graphics all the way to the initial delay for lobbies.

They literally saw the mistake SFV made when it released and followed the same pattern. Rushed ass game with a strong push for esports. We all saw how that worked so well for SFV so why not give it a go with DoA6.

Honestly I haven't touched the game in a few weeks and I won't bother to play the game till it's where it needs to be. If that never ends up happening then I'll just do what I've been doing enjoying quality games that aren't rush jobs trying to cash in on the fanbase.

Here's hoping the next version of DoA6 is what we expected from the beginning but if not plenty of other fighters for me to enjoy. Best thing you can do at this point is do what i have just quit the game entirely. I think that's the only way to get them to really care at this point.

Let the online playerbase completely die so they can't get anymore money from us. I refuse to play or invest anymore money at this point. Why support a game that's an afterthought compared to there other projects.

 

[MasterHavik]

I'm not against gravure games existence but something like the "private paradise" DLC should be left only for the Xtreme subseries. Everything in its context.

I think that without Itagaki, Team Ninja sees everything just as black or white. There's nothing wrong with fanservice, the eye candy is not something bad per se but ... you have to know how to handle it.

Why private paradise doesn't make sense in a main DOA game?, it's easy and it goes even beyond the fanservice. What DOA lacks since Itagaki depart is context.

Go to youtube and search videos of that mode, seriously, do it. Take a good look of how the characters are behaving, their poses, when they smile, when they play with the sand or the water. That's how professional gravure idols work, that isn't how a regular girl would behave in the beach. They basically portrayed all DOA female characters as professional gravure idols.

In DOA each character has its own personality and meanwhile there are female characters with a strong sexy personality like Christie, Tina, Lisa or Nyotengu, there are others that go to the "cute and innocent" side.

That's what they didn't get with DOA 5, not all female characters are the same and not all of them would wear super skimpy clothes or know how to pose in a super sexy way.

Christie can wear her stripper costume due her persona. She doesn't wear it just to please the crowd, she wears it as a sign of her strong confidence, just like Tina and Lisa with their wrestling costumes and Nyotengu with her provocative costumes.

Characters like Hitomi or Kasumi shouldn't know how to pose like a professional gravure idol, the same way that Hitomi would never wear something like this:

View attachment 28758

One thing is giving normal bikinis and swimsuits to the characters, because after all that isn't something strange and other thing is treating your female characters as if all of them would be preofessional gravure idols. If you want to do that, don't do it in your main games, do it in your spin offs.

Itagaki knew this and that's why meanwhile he still portrayed beautiful women with some revealing outfits, he knew where to draw the red line with each one of them. He knew how to manage the eye candy factor, the current Team Ninja still don't know how to do it.

He also knew how to run the game into the ground and fuck its balance because the ninjas weren't strong enough. I like a lot of what you say but I'm happy he is gone as Shimbroi has a good eye for gameplay. The gameplay in the older DOA were of other people Itgaki just wanna tell you how nice something look for 20 minutes. He can't tell you anything gameplay wise like Tom and Shimbroi can. I think on a story and creation of characters I give Itagki his props as he understood the series on that life and I think he wouldn't like Honoka, Marie Rose, NiCO, Mila, and Phase 4. A lot of these new characters are either boring and just there to pander to a niche. NyoTengu and a little of NiCO are the only new characters I think have had a positive impact. Rig and Mila are boring as shit but people like them because of how they play. More power to them, but I like to have fun so that is why I play characters like Zack, Tina, and Christie.

 

[U_C_A_F]

Another note is no matter how badly people want to separate the two, DOAXVV adds to the "pervy titty fighter" stigma that the DOA name carries. You want people to take Kasumi or Ayane seriously as badass ninjas in this game then in another game you can grope and pull down their pants to see their panties as they desperately tell you to stop is pretty fucked up.

I mean look at this shit

TN/KT doubled down on catering to perverts and pedos and turned to series into a bigger laughing stock than it already was.

 

[Jyu_Viole_Grace]

He also knew how to run the game into the ground and fuck its balance because the ninjas weren't strong enough. I like a lot of what you say but I'm happy he is gone as Shimbroi has a good eye for gameplay. The gameplay in the older DOA were of other people Itgaki just wanna tell you how nice something look for 20 minutes. He can't tell you anything gameplay wise like Tom and Shimbroi can. I think on a story and creation of characters I give Itagki his props as he understood the series on that life and I think he wouldn't like Honoka, Marie Rose, NiCO, Mila, and Phase 4. A lot of these new characters are either boring and just there to pander to a niche. NyoTengu and a little of NiCO are the only new characters I think have had a positive impact. Rig and Mila are boring as shit but people like them because of how they play. More power to them, but I like to have fun so that is why I play characters like Zack, Tina, and Christie.

I think he also wouldn't like Rig and Diego since these two characters are there just to pander to the USA crowd and don't have any personality. They are as cliche as the others.

But this aside, DOA 6 gameplay isn't perfect either. The way they are dealing with the SSA mechanic and how they even have to ban stages in the world championships just shows they aren't as focused in this game battle desing as they were with DOA 5.

I think with DOA 5 they had to prove to the world they could do DOA without Itagaki and they knew it, that's why they did their best. Now DOA 6 has nothing, not the graphics, not the story, not the content for casual players and ... it also doesn't have the gameplay.

At least old DOA games were good looking, had a nice story (not the best, but at least it was good), good content. That's why these games were more popular and why a lot people prefer Itagaki.

 

[TheTHCGamer]

At this point we can complain about the same things at nauseam but I'm sure we all have better things to do with our time. They're either trying to fix the issues we've been complaining about for months or the game isn't a priority enough for them to even care.

Time to move on everyone and hopefully things will be better over time. What else can we do at this point keep complaining about the same things that haven't been fixed yet. Hell there's no guarantee that some of them will ever be fixed. I dont know about you guys but for now I'm done with DoA6.

 

[MasterHavik]

I think he also wouldn't like Rig and Diego since these two characters are there just to pander to the USA crowd and don't have any personality. They are as cliche as the others.

But this aside, DOA 6 gameplay isn't perfect either. The way they are dealing with the SSA mechanic and how they even have to ban stages in the world championships just shows they aren't as focused in this game battle desing as they were with DOA 5.

I think with DOA 5 they had to prove to the world they could do DOA without Itagaki and they knew it, that's why they did their best. Now DOA 6 has nothing, not the graphics, not the story, not the content for casual players and ... it also doesn't have the gameplay.

At least old DOA games were good looking, had a nice story (not the best, but at least it was good), good content. That's why these games were more popular and why a lot people prefer Itagaki.

Line by line.

I think Rig is getting over mroe than Diego due to his gameplay though.

I like what they have done the old one was spammable.

You feel they got lazy and think they can do no wrong?

That's true. I had a blast playing DOA 2 with Hoodless and Rikuto.