Team NINJA Social Media Updates for DOA6

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
That "narrative" was pushed by western medias intentional mistranslations of what he said.
He said it to Famitsu:
――かすみの衣装も、これまでの忍び装束ではなく、クールな忍者スーツになっていますね。


新堀 全体のビジュアルイメージとして、今回は“カッコよさ”に寄せて、キャラクターを描こうと考えています。やはり『DOA』シリーズは、「女の子がセクシーすぎて、プレイするのが恥ずかしい」という意見もあるんです。実際、昨年の“EVO 2017”(毎年ラスベガスで行われている、対戦格闘ゲームの世界大会)に行った際に、ファンの方々から「もう少しカッコイイゲームにしてほしい」という意見もいただきました。そういうこともあり、今回はプレイヤーの皆さんが『DOA』のプレイヤーであること誇れるように、カッコよさを重視しています。
https://www.famitsu.com/news/201806/09158656.html

People literally said to him that girls were too sexy and it's embarrasing to play (DOA 5). The question is about DOA 6 Kasumi's costume.

Then he told to western media that he wanted to everyone play DOA6 without feeling embarrassed.
 
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werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I will go with internal DOA6 data. If Team Ninja data is an issue or you don't like it that isn't my fault.

001 was the first element in DOA 5 costume list. I don't see why in DOA 6 004 should be the first one but ey, maybe its due the "narrative".
Your response indicates that you didn't fully understand my post. But, let's move on.

Is your issue really just that the costume in the 1 slot isn't the default for the characters? And the costumes in the 1 slot are the "real" defaults? And that it was changed later to pander to the EVO crowd and not some other reason? Like...their just copying data over from DOA5?

None of that makes sense. I mentioned it before, but NiCO and Diego have no costume in slot 1. Or 2. Or 3. And everyone's defaults being slot 1 would've led to everyone of the cast just having their DOA5 outfits as costume 1 (and some of those aren't even that sexy).

It's ridiculous to try to connect any of this to "people being afraid of sexy costumes" and it makes you look bitter to bring it up out of nowhere like that and to try to force it.

The real answer is that they couldn't be arsed to code everything properly. lol
 
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Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Your response indicates that you didn't fully understand my post. But, let's move on.

Is your issue really just that the costume in the 1 slot isn't the default for the characters? And the costumes in the 1 slot are the "real" defaults? And that it was changed later to pander to the EVO crowd and not some other reason? Like...their just copying data over from DOA5?

None of that makes sense. I mentioned it before, but NiCO and Diego have no costume in slot 1. Or 2. Or 3. And everyone's defaults being slot 1 would've led to everyone of the cast just having their DOA5 outfits as costume 1 (and some of those aren't even that sexy).

It's ridiculous to try to connect any of this to "people being afraid of sexy costumes" and it makes you look bitter to bring it up out of nowhere like that and to try to force it.

The real answer is that they couldn't be arsed to code everything properly. lol
What issue? they gave us a custom list where to put costumes we want and being able to list them as we wish. It was a huge issue the first two weeks with that mobile gacha grind fest.

In other hand, they didn't copy data from DOA 5 because that isn't how these DOA 5 costumes are ogranized in DOA 5.

Yes, they changed default costumes due EVO crowd, that's a fact. Shimbori said it to Famitsu journalist when was asked about new Kasumi's DOA 6 default costume. He also said to an Eurogamer journalist later o that default costumes would also have restricted physics in comparison with revealing costumes and casual clothing costumes, so that's another factor to decide which costumes are default and which ones have to be unlocked.

I know Diego and NiCO don't have their three first costumes. I also saw NiCO concept art designs with different costumes, so yes, her current default costume could initially just be an alt costume.

And lastly:

"it makes you look bitter to bring it up out of nowhere like that and to try to force it"

What? forcing what?. It wasn't even my main point in that message, I told it as curiosity and Shimbori himself said the reason behind DOA 6 default costumes ...
 

werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
I know everyone is sick of this and it's pretty damn off-topic but I think we're getting somewhere. lol

Yes, they changed default costumes due EVO crowd,
This is probably a language misunderstanding. If you say they "changed" the defaults, this implies that they had already made default outfits, but then changed them later because of people from EVO. That's not what happened. Characters have changed default outfits in every game, with only Kasumi being almost the same outfit revamped over and over again. They changed the design philosophy of the defaults going into DOA6. I know about all the interviews and stuff. I know what all he said. But, they didn't have new costumes ready as default, but then made them the alternates instead. Most of the costumes were just pulled from the previous game. Kasumi's other new outfit is a parlor dress. That wasn't going to be the default no matter what. lol

So, it seems that you're saying that they planned to have repeat outfits from 5 as defaults. That pretty much happened for the characters introduced in 5 (Rig, Mila, Marie, Nyotengu, P4, Honoka, Nu-Raidou). And they also did it for Hitomi. But, doing that for everyone would've made the "this game looks exactly like 5" complaints multiply unto infinity. I doubt TN was ever going to do that.

I know Diego and NiCO don't have their three first costumes. I also saw NiCO concept art designs with different costumes, so yes, her current default costume could initially just be an alt costume.
That's not how that works. lol

One of Marie's concepts had black hair and an eyepatch. That doesn't make her current look an alt. Anything could've originally been an alternate costume under this line of reasoning.

What? forcing what?. It wasn't even my main point in that message, I told it as curiosity and Shimbori himself said the reason behind DOA 6 default costumes ...
You're forcing a connection between how the outfits are laid out in the internal files and their "changing" the default outfits. You said: "With this we also know that these new "default" costumes originally weren't default costumes and these were just alternative costumes, being changed to default due e-sports crowd telling Team Ninja that girls were too sexy."

You said we know, which is different from you just wondering if that's the reason. We know nothing of the sort. What you said can't be grasped from the image at all. And if it is just you wondering, then the answer is it's not true. Because if you're saying that the order of the outfits in the image is the real order that they were going to put into the game, but changed later, it doesn't work. Kokoro's slot 1 (DOA5 Kimono) shows less skin and has less...movement...than her actual default, which kills your idea about pandering. Lisa's slot 1 also has more coverage than her DOA6 default. And Tina's 2 and 3 slots are skimpier than her 1 slot.

The top row is just the costumes copied from DOA5. You see that P4 has no second row because she had no new outfits. And Diego's is arranged differently from the other guys, despite having the same amount of costumes, because he was not in DOA5. None of this has anything to do with defaults being alternates and the alternates being the real defaults. Or what's sexy and what's not. They just internally coded everything in an awkward way.

Kasumi and Honoka are arranged weirdly because Honoka's sweater and Kasumi's standard blue aren't recolors, but slightly different outfits, so they had to be slotted differently. Those two may be the only reason the costume grid goes up to 6 slots at all.
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
I know everyone is sick of this and it's pretty damn off-topic but I think we're getting somewhere. lol


This is probably a language misunderstanding. If you say they "changed" the defaults, this implies that they had already made default outfits, but then changed them later because of people from EVO. That's not what happened. Characters have changed default outfits in every game, with only Kasumi being almost the same outfit revamped over and over again. They changed the design philosophy of the defaults going into DOA6. I know about all the interviews and stuff. I know what all he said. But, they didn't have new costumes ready as default, but then made them the alternates instead. Most of the costumes were just pulled from the previous game. Kasumi's other new outfit is a parlor dress. That wasn't going to be the default no matter what. lol

So, it seems that you're saying that they planned to have repeat outfits from 5 as defaults. That pretty much happened for the characters introduced in 5 (Rig, Mila, Marie, Nyotengu, P4, Honoka, Nu-Raidou). And they also did it for Hitomi. But, doing that for everyone would've made the "this game looks exactly like 5" complaints multiply unto infinity. I doubt TN was ever going to do that.
This isn't a language misunderstanding because he claimed it in a Japanese interview. I will put it again:

――かすみの衣装も、これまでの忍び装束ではなく、クールな忍者スーツになっていますね。


新堀 全体のビジュアルイメージとして、今回は“カッコよさ”に寄せて、キャラクターを描こうと考えています。やはり『DOA』シリーズは、「女の子がセクシーすぎて、プレイするのが恥ずかしい」という意見もあるんです。実際、昨年の“EVO 2017”(毎年ラスベガスで行われている、対戦格闘ゲームの世界大会)に行った際に、ファンの方々から「もう少しカッコイイゲームにしてほしい」という意見もいただきました。そういうこともあり、今回はプレイヤーの皆さんが『DOA』のプレイヤーであること誇れるように、カッコよさを重視しています。
Here are his exact words:

「女の子がセクシーすぎて、プレイするのが恥ずかしい」
Girls are too sexy.

Wen asked about DOA 6 Kasumi costume, this is the reason he's gave. People said girls were too sexy, they wanted cool characters and they focused in that feedback thinking that would be what most people thought about DOA in west.

I didn't imply they worked in 3D costumes before EVO 2017, because we know due game files that they worked in that area after that date. What I said is, in their original conception, they didn't come with these new default costumes by themselves. They changed their minds after EVO 2017 with EVO crowd providing them feedback.

I know they change some default costumes from time to time, mainly for DOA 3 and DOA 4 characters. I also know they would never give to Kasumi this new Marvel outfit as default by themselves, not in a million years. Her Ninja Gaiden 3 costume was her Ryu Hayabusa wannabe costume from DOA 5, what happens to be her 001 costume in internal data.

People complaining about DOA5 costumes as default?, well ironically that isn't how it ended, quite the opposite.

Summarizing: all I said is what you named as design philosophy.

That's not how that works. lol

One of Marie's concepts had black hair and an eyepatch. That doesn't make her current look an alt. Anything could've originally been an alternate costume under this line of reasoning.
Yes, everything can be alternate or default, that's how concept arts works. They can choose whatever design and what determine what they choose is their criterion. Just happens that we know their DOA5 guidelines aren't the same with DOA6. They took EVO crowd feedback seriously.

You're forcing a connection between how the outfits are laid out in the internal files and their "changing" the default outfits. You said: "With this we also know that these new "default" costumes originally weren't default costumes and these were just alternative costumes, being changed to default due e-sports crowd telling Team Ninja that girls were too sexy."

You said we know, which is different from you just wondering if that's the reason. We know nothing of the sort. What you said can't be grasped from the image at all. And if it is just you wondering, then the answer is it's not true. Because if you're saying that the order of the outfits in the image is the real order that they were going to put into the game, but changed later, it doesn't work. Kokoro's slot 1 (DOA5 Kimono) shows less skin and has less...movement...than her actual default, which kills your idea about pandering. Lisa's slot 1 also has more coverage than her DOA6 default. And Tina's 2 and 3 slots are skimpier than her 1 slot.

The top row is just the costumes copied from DOA5. You see that P4 has no second row because she had no new outfits. And Diego's is arranged differently from the other guys, despite having the same amount of costumes, because he was not in DOA5. None of this has anything to do with defaults being alternates and the alternates being the real defaults. Or what's sexy and what's not. They just internally coded everything in an awkward way.

Kasumi and Honoka are arranged weirdly because Honoka's sweater and Kasumi's standard blue aren't recolors, but slightly different outfits, so they had to be slotted differently. Those two may be the only reason the costume grid goes up to 6 slots at all.
I'm not forcing anything, because we knew from Shimbori how they chosen default costumes. We didn't even need these templates to know it. I don't know why you are still doubting Shimbori's word. Well, I can guess why but even so, you can't do anything about it, that's what he said.

What I said is with these templates, we know these new costumes internally are just alternate costumes and which costumes are default costumes for them.

When you talk about skin you are just looking at cleavage. Kokoro furisode kimono costume doesn't show less skin than her DOA6 costume (defeat pose) and both Tina and Lisa 001 costumes have less restrictive physics than their DOA6 costumes.

Kasumi blue costume isn't weirdly placed, same with Honoka cow shirt costume. You think that because you think your row theory is true, that it's some kind of rule. If your row theory were true, then Kasumi blue costume should be placed at 003 but ... just happens she has four DOA5 costumes, same with Honoka, so your row theory can never be applied. They should have 004 costume slots in the upper row not in the lower row.

Also, this has nothing to do with coding. These are just template image sets, this isn't coding. By coding they extract these images and they re-organize them in internal arrays (or vectors, because you have your own custom costume list) with a new guideline.
 
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NewWestFan

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I mean can you blame them tho? All the social media "updates" we get is a daily tweet asking us to share our DOA6 photographies
I mean sure.

But I'd rather read a report on plant cell growth and the sustainability of wind energy than another four pages of thinly veiled fanservice arguments. Y'all could at least make it a good read, but it's... Just the same thing as every other 5 page back and forth between someone who likes the game for the game and someone who wants flappy bags of meat and fat jiggling in loose or no clothes.
We get it y'all.

 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Oh c´mon, let's no play the thread title card because off topic isn't even unusual here. When I posted all this data days ago it wasn't related to "social media updates" either. I just didn't want to begin a new thread just for that and it wasn't an issue.

I understand you guys don't like long discussions and I will stop it here but this isn't because this is off topic.
 

NewWestFan

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Oh c´mon, let's no play the thread title card because off topic isn't even unusual here. When I posted all this data days ago it wasn't related to "social media updates" either. I just didn't want to begin a new thread just for that and it wasn't an issue.

I understand you guys don't like long discussions and I will stop it here but this isn't because this is off topic.
You're right. It's because we're tired of this old dusty argument. Neither side is going anywhere, I really just wish both sets of red headed children would calm down and realize no matter how you cut it, DOA fans are all the kids that live under the stairwell of fighting games together. I'm guilty of engaging in this crap myself but seriously. Y'all can be more constructive than this.
 

Onryoki

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Standard Donor
I don’t know why people keep posting in this thread when there aren’t any social media updates anyway. For the costumes we got the costumes thread and the hair fetish thread (to some degree). I think this thread is more for general updates to the game and tournament updates. These whole stupid fan service argument needs to die. All has been said and done at this point, both sides are never coming to an agreement so they might as well stop.
 
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Jyu_Viole_Grace

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I don’t know why people keep posting in this thread when there aren’t any social media updates anyway. For the costumes we got the costumes thread and the hair fetish thread (to some degree). I think this thread is more for general updates to the game and tournament updates. These whole stupid fan service argument needs to die. All has been said and done at this point, both sides are never coming to an agreement so they might as well stop.
Just to clarify, this wasn't a discussion about if the game has less fanservice than DOA 5, I think at this point it's evident that the game has as much fanservice as DOA 5 at 2012 (for female characters ... male characters were sacrificed in oder to release the game with 5 costumes for most females).

That game had those unlockable DOAX2 costumes for three characters (which I didn't like and I don't miss them) and this game has Christie stripper costume (paid DLC in DOA 5 2012) and that Honoka DOA 5 DLC costume (which are way better imo than just three micro bikinis with different colours).
 
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deathofaninja

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Team NINJA not posting a lot of social media updates could actually be a revealing topic because it could mean they are working overtime on the game itself with more balance adjustments, characters and hopefully desirable DLC.
 
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