Lulu
Well-Known Member
My bad. Sonetimes I ramble.
DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
- Start date
My bad. Sonetimes I ramble.
ailingeternity
Active Member
Please tell me to stfu but have we discussed Honoka and Raidou's placements yet?
I'm very mixed regarding Honoka. On paper she's really fast and her HNK stance is devastatingly good but I feel she has to shovel to reach her damage potential, she needs to be close to land her hugs (6h+p) and even then her reset doesn't offer her a particularly scary mixup, her ranged moves aren't threatening either and even when she's in close her lack of string mixup makes her easy to punish, in addition she is massively hit-confirm based making throw punishment much easier to land once you can learn to defend against her. Her saving grace seems to come from CH 4k but her severe lack of options when she enters her stances (mainly just high and mid strikes) forces you most of the time to reset and go back to hugging/33h+p.
Raidou on the other hand seems very strong. He has decent speed, great ranged tools (66p, 9k, 66k), colossal damage on his throws (33h+p, qcf 46h+p etc.), offensive holds, very good juggle damage and happens to be a heavy weight character, he has it all! His biggest weakness is command execution but in high level play that's hardly going to be a factor.
I'm very mixed regarding Honoka. On paper she's really fast and her HNK stance is devastatingly good but I feel she has to shovel to reach her damage potential, she needs to be close to land her hugs (6h+p) and even then her reset doesn't offer her a particularly scary mixup, her ranged moves aren't threatening either and even when she's in close her lack of string mixup makes her easy to punish, in addition she is massively hit-confirm based making throw punishment much easier to land once you can learn to defend against her. Her saving grace seems to come from CH 4k but her severe lack of options when she enters her stances (mainly just high and mid strikes) forces you most of the time to reset and go back to hugging/33h+p.
Raidou on the other hand seems very strong. He has decent speed, great ranged tools (66p, 9k, 66k), colossal damage on his throws (33h+p, qcf 46h+p etc.), offensive holds, very good juggle damage and happens to be a heavy weight character, he has it all! His biggest weakness is command execution but in high level play that's hardly going to be a factor.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
I'd say Honoka is somewhere around low tier or lower mid tier. She just doesn't have the tools to be really dangerous. Her damage is pretty weak, her range is awful and she's quite unsafe. Almost all of the strike options she has are inferior versions of the original characters' move. But once she gets you in the corner it can pretty much be game over for her opponent since she is in extremely close range and has a devastating wall throw. She also has 9/11/13 speed and good mixups in stun. That's why I think she isn't bottom tier.
As for Raidou, I completely agree with you. His speed is pretty good for a Super Heavyweight and his stuns are really deep and very hard to slow escape or not slow-escapable (e.g. his crumple stuns). His throws are really good indeed, and his OH's too but they are really slow. I'd say command execution isn't a weakness of Raidou but a weakness of the player. I think his weakness is that his movestrings are static and easily reactable with a hold. Also, he's not a very safe character.
Agreed with everything @KING JAIMY stated about Honoka and Raidou. Honoka is lower mid tier, because she lacks the damage and range of the original fighters of the moves she has copied. She does excel in CQC, which means you have to play a rush down style with her in order to be successful with her (at least it works for me). Out of the two copycats, Honoka's advantage is that she has a bit of a speed advantage. Raidou on the other hand isn't that much slower, has better damage and has better stuns. Problem with Raidou is his lack of options, which means he becomes quite predictable and can be held easily by a skilled player. If we're playing tiers for the characters, Honoka would most likely be C or D tier, while Raidou would be B or C tier. Both the copycats excel in different areas in different ways. If you like to juggle your opponent and high damage and like having better movement and speed, Honoka is the way to go. If you're more of a defensive player who likes playing the stun-launch game, Raidou is your best bet.
Since the game has not been updated in almost half a year (balance-wise). 20 of the Japanese top players worked together to create a tier list match-up chart. I'm in the process of adding it to the shared google sheet. There is nothing worse than a 4-6 match-up according to their chart. Here's the end results:
The current Japanese tiers for DOA5 Last Round are as follows:
S - Hayate, Ayane, Gen Fu
A+ - Kasumi, Hayabusa, Akira
A - Helena, Christie, Mila
B+ - Hitomi, Zack, Rig, Jann Lee, Bayman, Kokoro, Leifang, Lisa
B - Tina, Leon, Sarah, Rachel, Momiji, Phase 4, Raidou, Bass, Brad
C+ - Eliot, Ein, Jacky, Pai
C - Nyotengu, Marie Rose
D - Honoka, Alpha-152
The current Japanese tiers for DOA5 Last Round are as follows:
S - Hayate, Ayane, Gen Fu
A+ - Kasumi, Hayabusa, Akira
A - Helena, Christie, Mila
B+ - Hitomi, Zack, Rig, Jann Lee, Bayman, Kokoro, Leifang, Lisa
B - Tina, Leon, Sarah, Rachel, Momiji, Phase 4, Raidou, Bass, Brad
C+ - Eliot, Ein, Jacky, Pai
C - Nyotengu, Marie Rose
D - Honoka, Alpha-152
Lol. I knew it, they have Hayabusa as a Top 5 character. @Brute
Overall it's a decent list more or less. Ayane and GenFu are Top 3 material easily. Hayate not so much though. He's fairly well-rounded but he's a bit lacking in some areas to make him a Top 5 character. I agree that Kasumi and Akira are Top 10 material though a little iffy on them being Top 5. Helena and Mila seem about right. Christie could be a little higher IMO. She shouldn't be out of the Top 5.
B+ seems ok, though Rig and especially Zack are really good and could easily be A's. LeiFang could be higher (around A+), though I could see how she could be considered lower although she has a shitload of good points. Kokoro & Lisa are interesting choices for B+, though I tend to feel that they may fall on the lower end of the roster overall but not by much. Unsure of Bayman, and Jann Lee looks about right.
Sarah, Rachel and Momiji feel a bit too low in B tier. Rachel and Momiji can feel a little limited technique-wise, but their strengths tend to outweigh their weaknesses. Sarah's a pretty damn strong character in DOA5LR and a potential Top 10 character. However, she can fall into a weird position where she either tends to fair very well against an opponent like Bass or struggles against someone like Ayane. Still surprised to see her being considered a bottom-half character, though I noticed that Jacky and Pai are considered low also. Jacky and Pai aren't "weak" in DOA but can noticeably be shutdown if you know how to deal with their strings, which I assume most VF players playing DOA would know how to do.
Lol, They still think ALPHA is bottom tier shit. Xcalibur better do some bodying over in Japan.
Overall it's a decent list more or less. Ayane and GenFu are Top 3 material easily. Hayate not so much though. He's fairly well-rounded but he's a bit lacking in some areas to make him a Top 5 character. I agree that Kasumi and Akira are Top 10 material though a little iffy on them being Top 5. Helena and Mila seem about right. Christie could be a little higher IMO. She shouldn't be out of the Top 5.
B+ seems ok, though Rig and especially Zack are really good and could easily be A's. LeiFang could be higher (around A+), though I could see how she could be considered lower although she has a shitload of good points. Kokoro & Lisa are interesting choices for B+, though I tend to feel that they may fall on the lower end of the roster overall but not by much. Unsure of Bayman, and Jann Lee looks about right.
Sarah, Rachel and Momiji feel a bit too low in B tier. Rachel and Momiji can feel a little limited technique-wise, but their strengths tend to outweigh their weaknesses. Sarah's a pretty damn strong character in DOA5LR and a potential Top 10 character. However, she can fall into a weird position where she either tends to fair very well against an opponent like Bass or struggles against someone like Ayane. Still surprised to see her being considered a bottom-half character, though I noticed that Jacky and Pai are considered low also. Jacky and Pai aren't "weak" in DOA but can noticeably be shutdown if you know how to deal with their strings, which I assume most VF players playing DOA would know how to do.
Lol, They still think ALPHA is bottom tier shit. Xcalibur better do some bodying over in Japan.
Not surprising. Stupidity isn't limited by international borders.
Nah, I reckon they got some godlike Busa tech like they had some "godlike" Kokoro tech a year and a half ago
.
If they were looking at tech, we wouldn't see Lei in mid tier.Nah, I reckon they got some godlike Busa tech like they had some "godlike" Kokoro tech a year and a half ago
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
I was gonna make a list of all things I find weird on their tier list but it would be way too long. I'm just gonna keep it short and say; This tier list is really weird.
We wouldn't see them having Momiji mid tier either, for the same reason.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
You're kidding, right?!
Black Dragon
Active Member
How the fuck is Ryu top tier?
Upper mid at best, but not top tier.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Since the game has not been updated in almost half a year (balance-wise). 20 of the Japanese top players worked together to create a tier list match-up chart. I'm in the process of adding it to the shared google sheet. There is nothing worse than a 4-6 match-up according to their chart. Here's the end results:
The current Japanese tiers for DOA5 Last Round are as follows:
S - Hayate, Ayane, Gen Fu
A+ - Kasumi, Hayabusa, Akira
A - Helena, Christie, Mila
B+ - Hitomi, Zack, Rig, Jann Lee, Bayman, Kokoro, Leifang, Lisa
B - Tina, Leon, Sarah, Rachel, Momiji, Phase 4, Raidou, Bass, Brad
C+ - Eliot, Ein, Jacky, Pai
C - Nyotengu, Marie Rose
D - Honoka, Alpha-152
Really... THATS FANTASTIC !!!
Why do you think Ayane isn't Top Tier? She's damn well one of the most well-rounded characters in the game whom can give a lot of other characters trouble.
There are still some flaws in the character that can be fixed. I don't think she's top.
Her flaws actually aren't that bad since her free cancel/poking and zoning capability are incredible. The more I evaluate her, the more I realize how ridiculously good she is at times. Ayane & Christie are destructive forces in DOA5LR.