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Nobody's story was ruined like Lisa's though
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Still waiting for Tatsunoko pack
Gotta get a PS4 now...
xOmniCloudx
Active Member
Surprised no Ikki Tousen collab (yet). Perfect match.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
And Lisa if you ignore/count the fact that she never had any character to act IN in the first place...
Secretary/volleyball player/scientist/professional wrestler/martial artist/tournament fighter all in her early 20s...
Lisa confirmed worst DOA personality made by Team Ninja xD
Thanks for reminding me that I have to watch Ikki Tousen's Great Guardians and Xtreme Xecutor on Netflix haha
The Enforcer
Well-Known Member
Wrestler/Martial Artist are not mutually exclusive. Volleyball player isn't exactly a profession for any of the DOA a girls, and the only evidence I recall of Lisa as a secretary was the opening clip of DOAX which could still have passed for Lisa still as a scientist, but not in the lab. I don't think her list of accolades is implausible. Definitely possibly for ambitious people.
xOmniCloudx
Active Member
I always hated how many clashing themes she had. it's why I am so split on her since there are parts of that I love and then parts of her that I have no care for or outright despise. I would like if the Lisa and La Mariposa personas were separated entirely as they do not coexist very well. Lisa should be an anti hero with her bitch tendencies that we see in her intro and win poses and just uses Capoeira and breakdancing to fight. La Mariposa should be full on luchadora, be an energetic over the top girl and have a connection to Tina. I really don't like the merging of the two styles in her gameplay regardless of her personality or backstory. I only care for the luchadore stuff personally.
Now, it's definitely plausible even if unlikely for someone to do all of that in their 20s but the problem is that they keep telling us that this all happens basically at the same time which doesn't work at all. She would change through different periods of her life relative to her situation and experiences that changed her, not have constant contradicting backstory, personalities and styles. Does she have MPD or bipolar syndromes given her complete shift between these things so frequently? If so, it's a far cry from how well it works for Tira in Soul Calibur. Lisa in terms of motive and shadiness should be more like Juri from SF4.
Also, I don't care what TN or anyone says, DOAX or any game in that franchise will never be canon to me. I'm not sure if they ever made it canon either way though.
It's actually been in my queue for awhile as I have only watched the first series/season from years ago and only in the past year or two discovered that more was made since then.
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KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with her multiple identities. I mean it is basically part of her concept that she has a double persona : scientist during the day, luchadora during the night. It goes well with her wearing a mask and it was quite exciting in DOA4. Tekken did it too anyway.
What I don't like is her characterization in terms of goals and alignement. It's hard to say if TN created a complex character or if they simply had no idea what to do with her. I think it's the second option as most characters in DOA are stereotypes without any evolution (except Ayane, Helena and recently Kasumi).
It's hard to say how Lisa fits in the story mode. But you know what, I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and say Lisa is a complex character. Not as well written as Jekyll & Hyde obviously, because it's only a fighting game, but she's certainly one of the most complex character in DOA.
This is Lisa's life objective.
I believe science is the only reason she joined DOATEC/MIST in the first place.
Like many famous scientists from our darkest moments in history, she faced many ethical questions : should I keep kidnapping Japanese teens only to improve the world ? Yeah I know, it sounds stupid, but she didn't resist. In our real world, she would be sentenced to jail.
Yet she kept making money and didn't quit her job despite doing illegal and immoral things. There are only two things that redeemed her in her storyline : when she freed Hayate in the last minutes of DOA5, realizing she went too far. And when she said it was Donovan's responsability in that cutscene with Helena (DOA4: "I won't let this bastard Donovan have his way").
So TN still has a chance to write her proper ending for her. I wouldn't say she is badly written, I would say she is constantly evolving.
Team Ninja has the perfect opportunity with Tina's storyline.
Step 0 : Lisa quit her job at M.I.S.T and unfriend Christie on Facebook.
Step 1 : La Mariposa makes her big comeback as a luchadora and publically announces she will challenge Tina on the ring!
Step 2 : The wresting match is actually a way to raise money to fund Tina's campaign.
Step 3 : The campaign's slogan is " Ah'm goin' to reforest the Amazonia* " where Scientist Lisa works for a good purpose.
Step 4 : Tina reaches her ultimate goal and Lisa becomes good.
Oh wait, that's already Jaycee/Julia Chang's storyline... well hurry up Lisa.
* The slogan could also be "Ah'm goin' to wet Texas", I heard drougth is a big problem. Lisa could still help. :/
What I don't like is her characterization in terms of goals and alignement. It's hard to say if TN created a complex character or if they simply had no idea what to do with her. I think it's the second option as most characters in DOA are stereotypes without any evolution (except Ayane, Helena and recently Kasumi).
It's hard to say how Lisa fits in the story mode. But you know what, I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and say Lisa is a complex character. Not as well written as Jekyll & Hyde obviously, because it's only a fighting game, but she's certainly one of the most complex character in DOA.
This is Lisa's life objective.
I believe science is the only reason she joined DOATEC/MIST in the first place.
Like many famous scientists from our darkest moments in history, she faced many ethical questions : should I keep kidnapping Japanese teens only to improve the world ? Yeah I know, it sounds stupid, but she didn't resist. In our real world, she would be sentenced to jail.
Yet she kept making money and didn't quit her job despite doing illegal and immoral things. There are only two things that redeemed her in her storyline : when she freed Hayate in the last minutes of DOA5, realizing she went too far. And when she said it was Donovan's responsability in that cutscene with Helena (DOA4: "I won't let this bastard Donovan have his way").
So TN still has a chance to write her proper ending for her. I wouldn't say she is badly written, I would say she is constantly evolving.
Team Ninja has the perfect opportunity with Tina's storyline.
Step 0 : Lisa quit her job at M.I.S.T and unfriend Christie on Facebook.
Step 1 : La Mariposa makes her big comeback as a luchadora and publically announces she will challenge Tina on the ring!
Step 2 : The wresting match is actually a way to raise money to fund Tina's campaign.
Step 3 : The campaign's slogan is " Ah'm goin' to reforest the Amazonia* " where Scientist Lisa works for a good purpose.
Step 4 : Tina reaches her ultimate goal and Lisa becomes good.
Oh wait, that's already Jaycee/Julia Chang's storyline... well hurry up Lisa.
I hope you appreciated Lisa a bit more after my point of view.. let's pray she doesn't get cut before she can be defined once for all
* The slogan could also be "Ah'm goin' to wet Texas", I heard drougth is a big problem. Lisa could still help. :/
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Argentus
Well-Known Member
Actually wrestler and martial artist are two different things. A wrestler is an entertainer with a public persona who puts on a choreographed show. A martial artist is a trained fighter.
The Enforcer
Well-Known Member
Hate to break it to you on this one.
There have been a few wrestlers in the entertainment arena that use martial arts based techniques to enhance the entertainment output. A martial artist may not limit themselves to any one discipline, especially since wrestling in it's sport sense (not a televised one) is a form of self defense much like judo, juijitsu. Also many branches of martial arts key in on entertainment value and not just self defense hence why martial artists are used for fight choreography in entertainment. There are a lot of similarities with Luchadore Wrestling and Capoeira. One is self defense the other is a high action style used in wrestling. One does not have to be a wrestler or a martial artist.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
Then when the fuck does she sleep, the Witching Hour?!
Oh I know but in Lisas case it can be considered separate. She is a stage wrestler AND a world class martial artist.Hate to break it to you on this one.
There are a lot of similarities with Luchadore Wrestling and Capoeira. One is self defense the other is a high action style used in wrestling. One does not have to be a wrestler or a martial artist.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Lisa is a workaholic. That's why she's one of the richest character. Even on summer vacation she needs to be active. Fur coats come with a price.
The Enforcer
Well-Known Member
Your point definitely makes sense from a profession stand point. I guess I think of being a martial artist as part lifestyle rather than what one gets paid to do. Much like an artist being paid to be a graphic designer or a sports player being paid to be a broadcaster.
An MMA fighter, fighting is the job, the art is the person/skill. Not sure how to word the idea correctly.
Lisa's clearly passionate about bio engineering, I hope TN explains why she luchadores on the side... we may never know
All we have to go off of is this from the wiki
"it is well-known that she was high school friends with fellow wrestler Tina Armstrong"
So her relationship with Tina may have influenced her descision. Tina retired after DOA4 Lisa may have as well but she didnt make a comeback in DOA5 like Tina did, maybe they're saving that for DOA6?
All we have to go off of is this from the wiki
"it is well-known that she was high school friends with fellow wrestler Tina Armstrong"
So her relationship with Tina may have influenced her descision. Tina retired after DOA4 Lisa may have as well but she didnt make a comeback in DOA5 like Tina did, maybe they're saving that for DOA6?
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Jadeinchains
Well-Known Member
If shes back in DOA6.
However being optimistic and hoping shes in the next game I do hope they make it clear what she hopes to accomplish.
In general I think that's what quite a lot of the story problems come from, is that for a lot of characters we only have a vague idea of what they are working towards. For example is Leifang's only goal always just going to be stalking Jann Lee or will she finally announce her love to Hitomi?!
Argentus
Well-Known Member
Didn't Leifang actually beat Jann Lee during DOA4, which was her goal all along?
Most of the characters already accomplished their goals by the end of doa4, or at least have no real story anymore.
Hitomi struck out on her own and found Ein
Leifang beat Jann Lee and proved she didn't need to be saved.
Zack became rich once again, this time on a steady income instead of needing tourney winnings to maintain his lifestyle
Helena reinvented Doatec and found her mothers killer
Tina keeps accomishing soany goals she's fatigued and aimless in 5, returning to wrestling by the end of it (going back to her roots)
Bass is retired
Leon deserted
Gen Fu retired
Brad Wong became a worthless drunk instead of the wise version he was originally, content to annoy Eliot
Eliot is training
Ryu is just there to act as insurance against the enemies the other ninjas face.
Ayane avenged genra and reconciled with Kasumi.
Hayate's still a bitch
Etc
Only the new pair (rig and Mila) ave anything going on, even then only Rig really (mila has no plot relevance or story arc beyond being excited to meet the daughter of her idol and her fire getting Tina pumped up again, which is why I headcanon she's Laurens daughter to give her and Leon some seriously needed story arcs and relevance). Lisa was trying to remake Ein, dlc and NG characters are just irrelevant extras.
Bayman, Helena (and by extent, Zack), Kasumi Hayate and Ayane are battling Donovan Rig Lisa and Christie, while the rest do the regular tournament for no particular reason beyond standard competitiveness and money rewards.
It sucks living without his pimp xD
SoftCabbage
Well-Known Member
Story of DOA6 (Spoiler Alert!):
Five months after Gen Fu taught Eliot his secret skill, he died from old age. After living his life as a good human, God gave a chance for to revisit earth again, as half human. Gen Fu then came back from the sky with his immortal angelic wings. Feeling young and strong, his passion to fight was reinvigorated again. With this passion, he kidnapped Nyotengu to gain Hayabusa's attention, but he didn't give a fuck. His temper led him to waste her and proceed to kidnap all DOA girls instead. Wind blew strongly, carrying waves of old man's smell. The blowing wind carried message to the Wind Boy, Hayate, that Kasumi and Ayane are in danger. Without thinking twice, Hayate rushed to where the wind blows to take them back. Hayabusa realized Hayate's sudden mission, so he followed after he sent his falcon to tell Bass, J. Lee, and Zack to help rescuing their dear families and friends.
Few hours later, they came together to defeat the Angelic Gen Fu, but none of them could defeat him, as only Gen Fu can beat Gen Fu himself. Hayate talked to Hayabusa, suggested him a very bad idea with high risk, yet worth the try. Hayabusa nodded in approval. Hayate then left the scene immediately. Raidou, the skill thief, was resurrected as half cyborg a while ago, talked to Hayate about this problem. Raidou's villainy mind never dies, he agreed to help Hayate just to be able to learn Gen Fu's ultimate move and so there goes the big man met Gen Fu on the field for a fierce battle. The furious fight didn't take long for Raidou to learn Gen Fu's ultimate move and copy it. Gen Fu, who have waited for a worthy challenge, finally ready to kill his mighty opponent. Finally, 'The Old Man Passion' was blasted from his rock solid hand towards Raidou. At the same time, Raidou executed the very same move. Huge explosion happened - the light was so blinding, the tremor was earth shattering. There goes the life of two resurrected legends. They died again on the very same earth. Beyond the smoke, Hayate knew his sisters were saved. He quickly ran onto them. But alas, the double 'Old Man Passion' created radiation and impregnated DOA girls. Together, they gave birth to Rai Fu, the son of destruction. Rai Fu killed Hayate immediately. Hayabusa summoned his Fire Drago at him, yet Rai Fu ate it. Seeing this, the rest of the boys felt unnerved and ran.
Will they defeat Rai Fu in DOA7? Maybe. Maybe not.
Five months after Gen Fu taught Eliot his secret skill, he died from old age. After living his life as a good human, God gave a chance for to revisit earth again, as half human. Gen Fu then came back from the sky with his immortal angelic wings. Feeling young and strong, his passion to fight was reinvigorated again. With this passion, he kidnapped Nyotengu to gain Hayabusa's attention, but he didn't give a fuck. His temper led him to waste her and proceed to kidnap all DOA girls instead. Wind blew strongly, carrying waves of old man's smell. The blowing wind carried message to the Wind Boy, Hayate, that Kasumi and Ayane are in danger. Without thinking twice, Hayate rushed to where the wind blows to take them back. Hayabusa realized Hayate's sudden mission, so he followed after he sent his falcon to tell Bass, J. Lee, and Zack to help rescuing their dear families and friends.
Few hours later, they came together to defeat the Angelic Gen Fu, but none of them could defeat him, as only Gen Fu can beat Gen Fu himself. Hayate talked to Hayabusa, suggested him a very bad idea with high risk, yet worth the try. Hayabusa nodded in approval. Hayate then left the scene immediately. Raidou, the skill thief, was resurrected as half cyborg a while ago, talked to Hayate about this problem. Raidou's villainy mind never dies, he agreed to help Hayate just to be able to learn Gen Fu's ultimate move and so there goes the big man met Gen Fu on the field for a fierce battle. The furious fight didn't take long for Raidou to learn Gen Fu's ultimate move and copy it. Gen Fu, who have waited for a worthy challenge, finally ready to kill his mighty opponent. Finally, 'The Old Man Passion' was blasted from his rock solid hand towards Raidou. At the same time, Raidou executed the very same move. Huge explosion happened - the light was so blinding, the tremor was earth shattering. There goes the life of two resurrected legends. They died again on the very same earth. Beyond the smoke, Hayate knew his sisters were saved. He quickly ran onto them. But alas, the double 'Old Man Passion' created radiation and impregnated DOA girls. Together, they gave birth to Rai Fu, the son of destruction. Rai Fu killed Hayate immediately. Hayabusa summoned his Fire Drago at him, yet Rai Fu ate it. Seeing this, the rest of the boys felt unnerved and ran.
Will they defeat Rai Fu in DOA7? Maybe. Maybe not.
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