Characters Lolicopter - [Marie Rose Information & Discussion Thread]
- Thread starter Brute
- Start date
Ayane's 4P and Lisa's 1PK should be snagging it in most situations. If you do opt for the patience route, however, keep in mind that Marie only has 1 actual string follow-up to the Minuet (Minuet P+K) which is horribly unsafe on block, despite the guard break. If you don't think she's going for that, just use an attack that puts you in crouch status (to avoid the BT T OH).
Enjoy being the sole person on our planet who thinks so.
Like the regular sidestep does? Yes.
Should they sidestep tracking moves like the Minuet does? No.
Hence, solitary madness.
Okay this needs to be addressed to Rose players because I'm getting tired of it.
PP6P and 6P (even 6PP) is not an offense on block in neutral. Someone capable of reading free cancelling and react with proper retaliation (like me) is going to blow you the fuck up for relying on this. This is only effective online where lag changes the game. This is pure fraudulence, straight up Rose gets rewarded for being mashy.
PP6P > 6P
PP6P > 3P
PP6P > K
PP6P > jab
PP6P > 2P
6P > 6P
6P > 3P
6P > K
6P > jab
6P > 2P
None of this is any real offense, go into training mode, record the dummy Rose doing any of this and try to strike, and see what happens. A lot of you guys playing this character online get away with this stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too frequently to the point where I can frankly tell you don't even realize what's going on here. You just roll with it.
I'm just putting this out there, this is online heavy, straight up.
Also, Rose's 8P+K/2P+K is not a side step, it's character specific movement. Stop calling it a side step lol.
PP6P and 6P (even 6PP) is not an offense on block in neutral. Someone capable of reading free cancelling and react with proper retaliation (like me) is going to blow you the fuck up for relying on this. This is only effective online where lag changes the game. This is pure fraudulence, straight up Rose gets rewarded for being mashy.
PP6P > 6P
PP6P > 3P
PP6P > K
PP6P > jab
PP6P > 2P
6P > 6P
6P > 3P
6P > K
6P > jab
6P > 2P
None of this is any real offense, go into training mode, record the dummy Rose doing any of this and try to strike, and see what happens. A lot of you guys playing this character online get away with this stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too frequently to the point where I can frankly tell you don't even realize what's going on here. You just roll with it.
I'm just putting this out there, this is online heavy, straight up.
Also, Rose's 8P+K/2P+K is not a side step, it's character specific movement. Stop calling it a side step lol.
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Tempest
Well-Known Member
Marie rose isn't the only character where people do this. Online just lets you get away with free cancels more than you should.
Yeah, I know every character can get away with the fraudulence, just some characters get away with it a lot more than most (Phase 4 is definitely another one like that). Marie is one of them.
@VirtuaKazama No one in particular, I don't get mad at the player, I just dislike sitting there and having to overblock what I know I can clearly stop on reads. I shouldn't be getting punished for being right, lol.
@VirtuaKazama No one in particular, I don't get mad at the player, I just dislike sitting there and having to overblock what I know I can clearly stop on reads. I shouldn't be getting punished for being right, lol.
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
The problem with maries 6pp online is that it the actual recovery of the string is pretty fast, I think 18 frames, now offline this wouldn't be a problem but online it pretty much makes it impossible to punish.
6P recovers in i18 frames, 6PP recovers in i16 frames.
Okay, so I was messing around with Marie in Danger Zone, blue zone.
From my testing, she can't any guaranteed ground bounce (ie. with tech rolling on) from any of her juggles. At all. The only move which can do so is PPPP, but it hits the opponent too far away to be of any use.
The only move which gives her a good ground bounce is P+K, which is safe and is useful as a low crush, but that's it. I think Marie's the only character in the game who can't extend juggles on the blue zone.
EDIT:
Okay, turns out she can end her juggled with KK. Not really. Only if you use 7K or BT4P as a launcher will this be viable. On NH launch height, Marie can do 7K > PPP > KK and follow up with 6K4K > PP6PK or PPP > PP6PK. With BTP, she can only do BT P > KK > juggle.
Mega balance issue here, TN. At the very least make 6K2K (and variants) be able to get the bounce.
Edit:
While only one of Marie's juggle enders can get a bounce (and a bad ender at that), some of her holds do allow for a guarantee bounce for even higher damage than her advanced holds.
There's something weird about the bounce, though. It doesn't seem to be affected by stances, and it feels like a 20/80 chance. Basically, you either get a high ground bounce (which allows for follow-ups) or a low one (which you can't followup since the opponent falls too fast). The low bounce comes out a lot more often if your holds are normal or counter. On Hi-Counter, it's more of a 40/60 chance. It's weird. I'll post up a video showing the inconsistency here. Hopefully it'll be addressed in a future patch.
The video:
Anyway, if you do manage to get the bounce:
High Punch Hold > 6K4K > KKK (high bounce)
High Punch Hold > 6PK (low bounce)
Mid Kick Hold > 214P > 6P > PPPP (high bounce)
Mid Kick Hold > 6K4~PP > PP6PK ("low" bounce - looks the same height, but is actually lower)
Low Punch Hold > 4PP > PPPP (high bounce)
Low Punch Hold > 6PK (low bounce)
From my testing, she can't any guaranteed ground bounce (ie. with tech rolling on) from any of her juggles. At all. The only move which can do so is PPPP, but it hits the opponent too far away to be of any use.
The only move which gives her a good ground bounce is P+K, which is safe and is useful as a low crush, but that's it. I think Marie's the only character in the game who can't extend juggles on the blue zone.
EDIT:
Okay, turns out she can end her juggled with KK. Not really. Only if you use 7K or BT4P as a launcher will this be viable. On NH launch height, Marie can do 7K > PPP > KK and follow up with 6K4K > PP6PK or PPP > PP6PK. With BTP, she can only do BT P > KK > juggle.
Mega balance issue here, TN. At the very least make 6K2K (and variants) be able to get the bounce.
Edit:
While only one of Marie's juggle enders can get a bounce (and a bad ender at that), some of her holds do allow for a guarantee bounce for even higher damage than her advanced holds.
There's something weird about the bounce, though. It doesn't seem to be affected by stances, and it feels like a 20/80 chance. Basically, you either get a high ground bounce (which allows for follow-ups) or a low one (which you can't followup since the opponent falls too fast). The low bounce comes out a lot more often if your holds are normal or counter. On Hi-Counter, it's more of a 40/60 chance. It's weird. I'll post up a video showing the inconsistency here. Hopefully it'll be addressed in a future patch.
The video:
Anyway, if you do manage to get the bounce:
High Punch Hold > 6K4K > KKK (high bounce)
High Punch Hold > 6PK (low bounce)
Mid Kick Hold > 214P > 6P > PPPP (high bounce)
Mid Kick Hold > 6K4~PP > PP6PK ("low" bounce - looks the same height, but is actually lower)
Low Punch Hold > 4PP > PPPP (high bounce)
Low Punch Hold > 6PK (low bounce)
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ModusPwnins
Active Member
I could've sworn BT2K bounds them on Danger Zone?
So basically BT H+K, 2K B! -> follow through with extended juggle
So basically BT H+K, 2K B! -> follow through with extended juggle
whiterobes
Active Member
I'm fairly new to posting so hello! I've been studying frame data for all the characters for a while, but I only recently started using that to figure out what my characters can do with what advantage they have when an opponent is teching up or force teched. I came up with some stuff for Marie and hopefully it proves to be a little useful.
whiterobes
Active Member
Thanks, please do. There are a few things I should note that I wish I had the editing skills to put in the video.
Anything that actually hits during the sitdown bounce is weight class specific with the exception of 6K2K. That should work on all weight classes. Also, the 6K2K iteration is a little situational and dependent on the opponent teching to the left or right; anywhere except back (unless there's a wall and space is limited.) Still good to know though, I think.
Last but not least, force teching with P+K iteration or if opponent techs after 1P grants the same advantage. Strangely, the unholdable 2P grants +1 advantage ONLY if the opponent crouches or attempts the low hold. I guess both are the same option. In any case, you're left at neutral if they choose a standing guard and it's safe on crouch block at the least.
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
That is one hell of a sick video, @whiterobes. My sister, who actually mains Marie Rose, might put those to good use. Also, the unholdables you've listed from 41236T and Flower Wheel T only work in training mode, unfortunately. I've found these myself as well, indepedently from you, and after further research I came to the conclusion that the AI uses another type of tech roll called a 'neutral delayed tech roll''. So those will only work on an AI opponent in training mode, not against human opponents. Nice finds nonetheless though.
For reference, here is the post a made quite a while ago with the unholdables in it. These only work in training mode, unfortunately. The second quote contains two unholdable PB setups, which aren't covered in your video. Those are pretty situational though, as you sacrifice a lot of damage. The second one actually does work on human opponents.
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