Characters Lolicopter - [Marie Rose Information & Discussion Thread]

[whiterobes]

That is one hell of a sick video, @whiterobes. My sister, who actually mains Marie Rose, might put those to good use. Also, the unholdables you've listed from 41236T and Flower Wheel T only work in training mode, unfortunately. I've found these myself as well, indepedently from you, and after further research I came to the conclusion that the AI uses another type of tech roll called a 'neutral delayed tech roll''. So those will only work on an AI opponent in training mode, not against human opponents. Nice finds nonetheless though.

For reference, here is the post a made quite a while ago with the unholdables in it. These only work in training mode, unfortunately. The second quote contains two unholdable PB setups, which aren't covered in your video. Those are pretty situational though, as you sacrifice a lot of damage. The second one actually does work on human opponents.

Thanks! Very informative. And here I had just recently discovered for myself those unholdables from her various holds and was about to make another clip. At least I know I'm doing something right. lol I clearly did not scour these threads for your post so now I feel a little foolish for possibly reposting old information. :[

But I'm glad that maybe some of them are useful and other folks took a look.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Nothing to feel foolish about. Some times bringing up the same information later down the line is good for everyone that doesn't want to search hundreds of post to find something.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Thanks! Very informative. And here I had just recently discovered for myself those unholdables from her various holds and was about to make another clip. At least I know I'm doing something right. lol I clearly did not scour these threads for your post so now I feel a little foolish for possibly reposting old information. :[

But I'm glad that maybe some of them are useful and other folks took a look.

Nah, don't have to feel that way man. I don't claim to 'own' that knowledge or whatever you may call it. Besides, you found it independently from me as well. Reposting old information is fine. My post was already buried anyway. xD

 

[KING JAIMY]

My ideas for changes to Marie Rose. Overall, I feel that Marie Rose could use some buffs, even though I think she is not a bad character at all. Keep in mind that these are just my ideas, and feel free to comment on them.

*NEW MOVE!*

Just an extension of her 3PK. It's a mix between 3PK and KK. The last kick is the same sit-down stun kick and should be just as unsafe as the second kick in KK.

*NEW MOVE!*

Equivalent of BT KKK. Has the same animation and frame data, but is performed from front-turned stance. Imagine how cool this combo would look: CH 7K > BT KK > 8H+KKK.

*NEW MOVE!* Flower Wheel

Give it OH properties and possibly the same animation as 2T. It is already risky to use Flower Wheel in the first place since the opponent can avoid all options, bar Flower Wheel K, by simply ducking.

*NEW MOVE!*

Animation is the same as the second kick of 6PK. For mid range poking purposes. No changes on frame data.

*NEW MOVE!*

Low kick follow-up from 9K to make the string less static. The low kick animation could be the same as BT 2K.

*NEW MOVE!* /

Give Marie's 4K and 4PK a strike throw follow-up (comparable to Jacky's Slide Shuffle 33K.T). Strike throw animation could be anything in the sense of her regular mid kick hold. To not let this move to be too OP, also make 4K and 4PK more disadvantageous on block.

Increase launch height of

Currently, I find this launcher weak and lackluster compared to the others. It launches way too low and is unsafe as hell. And it's a mid punch, so why would you go for 214P when you've got access to a mid punch Critical Burst?

Increase launch height of

Again, a pretty lackluster movestring in my opinion. I would like to let it have some purpose at the very least.

Change stun of to blind stagger stun.

Going by the animation, it would make sense to let this move cause a blind stagger stun, which in practice would give Marie more frame advantage if it hits.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Why buff a character when she was intentionally made that way in design. Similar to Ein where despite his approach to the game and no matter the circumstances of his changes people in the Ein boards have been asking, he will not receive the demanded changes because he was intentionally made that way to be played in that fashion. Which could be said for Marie Rose. In topic with moveset, I don't see this happening or any granted new move (Perhaps 1) to be added within DOA5LR. I can see new moves in a new DOA game overall.

Why I understand that it's just your ideas, I don't see the need to buff the character overall when most on the roster have similar issues.

 

[Brute]

*NEW MOVE!* Flower Wheel

Give it OH properties and possibly the same animation as 2T. It is already risky to use Flower Wheel in the first place since the opponent can avoid all options, bar Flower Wheel K, by simply ducking.

As it should be.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Marie's 9K definitely doesn't need a new follow up. The follow up in 9KK is already unseeable (you are guessing that it is coming) as it is. And it is already an uppercut stun (9K) followed by a semi-safe mid kick at -7. Topped with 9K4 to into BT stance to do whatever or back away, 9K is already a superb move in her move list. Doesn't need anything else.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Why buff a character when she was intentionally made that way in design. Similar to Ein where despite his approach to the game and no matter the circumstances of his changes people in the Ein boards have been asking, he will not receive the demanded changes because he was intentionally made that way to be played in that fashion. Which could be said for Marie Rose. In topic with moveset, I don't see this happening or any granted new move (Perhaps 1) to be added within DOA5LR. I can see new moves in a new DOA game overall.

Why I understand that it's just your ideas, I don't see the need to buff the character overall when most on the roster have similar issues.

So how is Marie Rose supposed to be played then looking at her current moveset? I don't understand your point.

I would like to see Marie Rose buffed because I feel she falls slightly under the focal point of balance. I know other characters can use buffs too, but I just couldn't be bothered to come up with possible changes for all characters in the game.

Marie's 9K definitely doesn't need a new follow up. The follow up in 9KK is already unseeable (you are guessing that it is coming) as it is. And it is already an uppercut stun (9K) followed by a semi-safe mid kick at -7. Topped with 9K4 to into BT stance to do whatever or back away, 9K is already a superb move in her move list. Doesn't need anything else.

I actually agree. It was just an idea that came to mind, but in hindsight, she doesn't really need it.

 

[DestructionBomb]

So how is Marie Rose supposed to be played then looking at her current moveset? I don't understand your point.

I would like to see Marie Rose buffed because I feel she falls slightly under the focal point of balance. I know other characters can use buffs too, but I just couldn't be bothered to come up with possible changes for all characters in the game.

The same could be said for the rest of the cast, but the initial point I am making is that her pros outweight some of her cons no matter the cost here. The issue is that people requesting buffs for characters knowing full well she does not exactly need them, yet people still request them anyway. Because people seek some sort of new ways to implement on the character in terms of fun to use? she's a new character. She is new to begin with.

You have to really sit down and think as to why she needs these particular changes for viability. Yes, you want the characters to be buffed...now does she truly need them just to provide a boost ahead of the cast? the answer is obvious due to individuals still falling for setups and gimmicks to where they "have" to guess, with options that lead them into lift stuns along with guaranteed situations. The perfect time to request these changes is a new upcoming game because it's "new." I don't see any of these happening at all with the exception of perhaps one.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I honestly think nothing really needs changing in Last Round. No buffs, no nerfs, no re-balancing in anything. This is probably the most balanced out iteration of DOA5 to date.

What it's going to come down to NOW (because it should've been a long time ago), is for players to start learning how to deal with everything in the game. Take time and figure it out. If something isn't happening with the character you play, as often and favorable as you want it to. Then you're still not understanding something about that situation or something about your character. Ask yourself why?

Folks need to stop blaming their faults on their characters and put the blame on themselves. (This was in no relation to anyone here, just a generalization).

 

[VirtuaKazama]

My reasoning is because I rely on playing the shenanigans game with 2P+KP+K every time. I need to start using that less because although it guard breaks, it's also unsafe due to recovery.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

My reasoning is because I rely on playing the shenanigans game with 2P+KP+K every time. I need to start using that less because although it guard breaks, it's also unsafe due to recovery.

You can be punished really hard if it's blocked. You can actually punish it with a power blow if you side step it on reaction. But y'know, no one does that. And no one knows that, lol.

 

[KasumiLover]

You can be punished really hard if it's blocked. You can actually punish it with a power blow if you side step it on reaction. But y'know, no one does that. And no one knows that, lol.

Thank you for that um, ahem...useful information.

 

[xXSilverSearcherxX]

How to Deal with The side step throw where she Throws you from side to side? Even high level players do that and it annoys the F out of me when they get free damage from doing 3 Hits and then that.

 

[Brute]

How to Deal with The side step throw where she Throws you from side to side? Even high level players do that and it annoys the F out of me when they get free damage from doing 3 Hits and then that.

She technically does that from backturned stance, so look out for when she flips around. It's an Offensive Hold (OH), meaning that if you try to strike her out of it, she will still nab you. The best way to avoid it is by ducking or using crouching attacks (such as down + punch), as her OH will whiff so long as you are not standing (or attacking in an upright position).

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Has anyone mentioned Marie Rose's spacing options yet? I don't think it was mentioned at all...

 

[KING JAIMY]

Has anyone mentioned Marie Rose's spacing options yet? I don't think it was mentioned at all...

No, it hasn't been mentioned nor discussed yet, as far as I know.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Has anyone mentioned Marie Rose's spacing options yet? I don't think it was mentioned at all...

Yes, I mentioned them in another thread for her some time in 2014. I'll quote what I mentioned;

This character's CQC (close quarters combat) is nothing to laugh at. She's designed to control the neutral game up close, and even just a little bit mid range (a little). She is not well-suited to fight at range, every character has a flaw somewhere.

However, it doesn't imply she is totally lacking. Let's look at what Marie has for whiff punishment;

- 4K is an i16 frame mid kick that stuns for +28 on normal hit.
- 4P is an i16 frame mid punch that is critical hit and is +6 on normal hit (+25 on counter hit), with that same 4K as a follow up. That critical hit from 4P implies the follow up must be held on hit confirm.
- 66K has good range to whiff punish strikes mid range for a +26 stun on normal hit and gives a crumple stun on counter hit and threshold. Also hops over lows.
-236P has very good range to whiff punish at it's hittable ranges. So does P+K, which hops over lows.
- 3H+K has good mid range for whiff punishment at it's hittable ranges. And that stun gets you in, which is the point anyway.

For range pokes;

- 2P has decent range for a low.
- 3PK is an i14 frame mid punch with a high follow up that is safe at -3 (which is essentially her neutral K).
- 3K is an i14 frame kick and is semi-safe at -6 (can be neutral thrown in CQC range), with a stun of +24 on counter hit.
- 9K is an i15 frame high kick with a solid mix up on hit. +35 stun on normal hit, with a mid kick follow up that's +26, both are very good. Also semi-safe at -7. 9K4 even leaves her in back turned stance for BTOH and strike mix up.
- 6PP can even be used as a short ranged poke and is safe at -5, also gets you in.
- 6PK does the same thing as 6PP and is semi-safe at -6.
- Neutral K is i12 frames and is solid for a short ranged poke, and incredibly safe at -3 with a delayable follow up (although punishable on block).

I would also add her 2K to the list of range moves, since it's fast at i14 frames. You can try to control some space with it, and it will force opponents to do something to stop you from doing it. Which is what you want.

 

[UncleKitchener]

This character's range options are, eh meh decent, but I honestly think that's one of her weaknesses. This character belongs in the close quarter range.

In fights against a character that can throw you back out or reset you up close, she has no magic tools and has to deal with those.

3h+k ends up being a good tool even if it's punishable. 66k and 4k are decent but players are gonna start throwing those options.

I feel that throw characters can sometimes end up having a slightly easier time against this character when it comes to conditioning. Her safety can be above average in the cast, bit she also has holes which can be exploited.

Sane goes for zoners. They can easily keep her out to the point that if 236p is also consistently punished, then the rose player has to rely on fundementals and cautious spacing.

Her 3p+k OH is also not the most ideal tool against a knowledgeable player either by now people have figured out her meta game or are familiar with the animation. It can however still crush and jump over some strings but that's super risky.

Some good players do end up setting up the Minuet at midrange to catch people with her BT OH, though that can also be pretty risky. I find myself throwing this setup more often and not really caring if I get hi-counter hit or not. I often find it more beneficial to stop or duck the OH.

Overall, she's good but mostly at close range.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

You have to rely on fundamentals no matter what character you are playing in this game.